Leonardo Pavkovic: The Other Side of the Mountain

AAJ: Would you say that you've learned how to navigate MoonJune through Bandcamp?

LP: There's something that confuses people about Bandcamp. Bandcamp doesn't sell music. Bandcamp sells absolutely nothing. It's simply a platform used to sell digital and physical products and merchandise. If you have a low-traffic profile, you pay a 15% commission on sales; as soon as you reach a certain number of transactions, you pay 10%.

I don't mind paying 10% for this type of service because it offers all these benefits: the benefit of collecting email addresses, the benefit of communicating and interacting. I don't mind paying it because it's actually a good investment.

AAJ: Are you selling more music on/through Bandcamp?

LP: The problem is that, due to market over-saturation and products overload, music is selling less and less, unless it's a special project. Sales are catastrophic if you're an unknown artist who doesn't tour. There are fewer and fewer reviews. Some artists who release albums on MoonJune have little social media presence. Times are changing. It's not like it used to be, and there's a huge number of artists and albums on the market.

I have a few albums scheduled for release this year: A live album by Iranian avant-prog band Quartet Diminished, Beledo's new studio album featuring Chad Wackerman, Anthony Crawford, and other guests; another live album from the second US tour by Indonesian band simakDialog; another studio album by Mark Wingfield and a few projects I'll co-release with Markus Reuter. If Dwiki Dharmawan or Dewa Budjana release anything new, I'll obviously support them, and I'll continue to support Percy Jones and the potential releases of Brand X's archival live concerts.

Eclectic Don Quixote

AAJ: This question does not sound too original but, looking back over 25 years, which is a long time: Is MoonJune a label or a community?

LP: Yes, I can say that MoonJune operates as a global community of progressive musicians, artists, and fans, with an independent record label and booking agency behind it. I have 150 albums on my label, I have booked over 2,500 concerts, and I travelled to nearly 90 countries across five continents.

Yes, I feel that I am part of a community, which is what we need in today's world of increased selfishness and superficiality that exercises individual values at the expense of collective ones. I enjoy the spirit of collectivism, the sharing of similar interests with like-minded people, and the openness to other cultures and experiences.

This festival features musicians and staff from 20 countries, while attendees come from 30 countries. I believe they come not only for the excellent festival program, but also to visit this unique region of Italy and experience the state of "MoonJune-ism," to experience the global community having fun in the company of old and new friends. There's nothing new in what I offer but there's not much of this concept around.

I've realized that people are drawn to me because I'm cultivating an intimate, deeply loyal, and reciprocal ecosystem of pioneering musicians and devoted fans of uncompromising, out-of-the-box music, where I've organically built a community founded on deep personal connections and artistic appreciation, rather than passing fads.

The late John Kelman, a remarkable man and dear friend and senior writer for AAJ, was the one who coined the term "MoonJune-ism": A dedication to unclassifiable, cutting-edge, progressive music that prioritizes pure talent, artistic passion, and international collaboration over commercial formulas, implemented according to a philosophy that rejects the dynamics of the traditional music industry and instead fosters a strong sense of community and a family of artists who support, collaborate, and sustain one another. All of this happens organically and spontaneously. John identified me as a "music matchmaker" who spontaneously brings together unique configurations of musicians from around the world without a pre-established plan.

Every artist in my catalog is someone I know personally and with whom I share not only a deep artistic and philosophical affinity but an innate chemistry and friendship. Yes, it's a community. I wasn't aware of it before, but now I am.

It's interesting that people always think of MoonJune as a record label, and that's fine with me. But I'd like to be known for MoonJune's other activities outside of the record label, which I've enjoyed doing. My record label is only a small part of MoonJune. The vast majority of the 2,500+ shows I've booked are by artists who have never been on my record label. I've already mentioned several but also Allan Holdsworth, Scott Henderson, Levin Brothers Band, Andy Summers, Terry Bozzio, Eddie Jobson, Frank Gambale, EXTC, Colosseum, New Trolls, Stu Hamm, and many others.

AAJ: It seems like we watched Gary Husband artistically mature through MoonJune.

LP: Actually, Gary has only one album on my label and it's kind of a compilation of his other stuff.

AAJ: Yes, but most of us saw him first as a sideman on this person's record, and then on that person's record, and each time it seemed he was playing additional instruments and contributing more. He played several instruments on the Soft Machine Hidden Details (MoonJune Records, 2018) tour, including drums to fill in for John Marshall.

LP: Gary Husband and I have a very special bond, not only because of his only album I released (Postcards from the Past (MoonJune Records, 2025)) but also because we have a long history with Allan Holdsworth. I've organized hundreds of Allan Holdsworth concerts around the world. I've traveled with him everywhere, often with Gary. Allan has played with Chad Wackerman at times, with Virgil Donati at others, but his favorite drummer has always been Gary Husband. Gary is a fabulous drummer and keyboard player, but I think his main talent is playing the piano. Despite playing drums and keyboards for the biggest names in the music world, Gary never had enough time to develop his extraordinary solo talent, which he nonetheless fully possesses. If he hadn't been busy playing for others and had had more opportunities to shine on the piano, he would be a global piano super star, as he is as talented as Keith Jarrett, Chick Corea, or Herbie Hancock; he is unique, a true original, his phrasing is unusual and touches the soul. And Gary and Allan Holdsworth were like two brothers.

AAJ: Please name two or three other artists on your label whose growth you'd like to recognize? 

LP: I would like to name so many more than three, such as Dewa Budjana, Dwiki Dharmawan, Beledo, Marcus Reuter, Mark Wingfield, and Asaf Sirkis. They're not famous, but to me they are so unique.

Bill Bruford is a huge Asaf Sirkis fan and features him extensively in his book Uncharted (Creativity And The Expert Drummer). I've known Asaf for almost twenty years. He was born in Israel and moved to London as a young man, where he played with many musicians. I noticed his musical talent, we met, became friends, and began collaborating on various projects, until he joined Soft Machine, replacing the legendary John Marshall.

I believe that MoonJune's albums with Asaf Sirkis are among the finest recordings and performances he's ever made. particularly Mark Wingfield's albums Tales From The Dreaming City (MoonJune Records, 2018) and The Gathering (MoonJune Records, 2024) as well as the collaborative projects Wingfield Reuter Stavi Sirkis: The Stone House (MoonJune Records, 2017) and Lighthouse (MoonJune Records, 2017). And then Dwiki Dharamwan's phenomenal improvisation album Hari Ketiga (MoonJune Records, 2020), which also features Markus Reuter and Boris Savodlelli, and Markus Reuter's power trio debut album Truce (MoonJune Records, 2020).

I believe Asaf's collaboration with Mark, Markus, and Dwiki has benefited him enormously and allowed him to fully express his immense talent. He's one of the most talented drummers I've ever met. He has the elegance of Chad Wackerman and Bill Bruford, the dynamism of Gary Husband and Tony Williams, the sophistication of Jack DeJohnette and Jon Christensen—all great influences—and he also has a style and drum language all his own. He's also one of the nicest people you'll ever meet. 

Then there's the unsung hero of the guitar and one of my all-time favorite guitarists, Mark Wingfield. He's unable to perform live or tour due to a very unique and delicate family situation, and I adore Mark because he's an extraordinary musician and a wonderful person. He's a brilliant guitarist, composer, and engineer, and his playing pushes the sonic possibilities of electric guitar to the limit. Instead of relying on typical rock riffs, Mark approaches his instrument as if it were a human voice or a jazz wind instrument and creates fluid, emotive melodies that convey profound imagery and abstract beauty. His compositional style focuses on translating deep moods, emotions, and inner feelings into unexpected note combinations, transporting listeners into dreamlike soundscapes. There are no "the best" or "the greatest" guitarists in the world, but Mark, along with Terje Rypdal and Nguyen Le, is the guitarist who gives me goosebumps and a deep emotional well-being when I listen to his playing,

Markus Reuter is not only one of the greatest, most innovative, and most versatile musicians I've ever met, befriended, and worked with but he's also one of the wisest men I know in the music community. He fully understands what's happening in this saturated and challenging world for an independent artist and record label. He's the mastermind behind the entire Stick Men discography and the band's latest concept album Let's Thrak Again (Iapetus, 2018), deserves special mention. Markus is not only the third member of the seminal avant-prog trio Stick Men but also the band's primary creative and executive force.

But it's not just Stick Men. Markus appears on 21 albums released under MoonJune Records. He bridges the gap between progressive rock, electronic sound design, modern classical, and avant-garde jazz through dozens of collaborations with a myriad of extraordinary musicians from around the world, and is both a ferocious soloist and a wonderful visionary soundscapist. He is one of the most effortless musicians I know. I believe that his best work is on MoonJune, too—especially his collaborations with Mark Wingfield and Asaf Sirkis, his power trio Truce, as well as the beautifully introspective duo album with Gary Husband Music Of Our Times (MoonJune Records, 2020) which we recorded in Tokyo at the start of the COVID pandemic: When the entire Stick Men Pan-Asian tour with Gary Husband was cancelled, we were stuck in Tokyo, and these two maestros have created sonic magic—one of the high points of MoonJune Records.

AAJ: Where do you see yourself if we interview you again three to five years from now?

LP: I'm tired of running the label. MoonJune Records will undergo a radical transformation at the end of the year. I feel the need to do things differently in 2027. MoonJune Records was never intended to be my main business and it grew beyond my capabilities. Sometimes beyond my own strength—it often became a burden. I wish I had had a better structure and perhaps a partner or investor, but many plans fell through. After the pandemic, I was contacted by a music industry executive with an impeccable resume and extensive industry experience, but after the initial enthusiasm, everything went wrong and it was a total disaster.

I'm a one-man company. I can't do things the way I used to and I can't please everyone. My wife will finally retire in a few months, and no longer having to manage the record label—or rather, decreasing drastically what I do as a record label—will allow me to have more time for other things I enjoy in life as well as developing and improving my booking business and exploring new opportunities. 

I'm working on a new project called MoonUnity with a friend here in Spain. After many years, I've finally found someone who understands my abilities and how I can maximize my potential. Although I'm extremely organized in my booking business, I admit I'm not a great record label manager. In the future, I'd prefer to simply take care of someone else's project and sell the finished product without having to worry about too many details. It's become exhausting. I enjoy producing albums like I used to at La Casa Murada, an extraordinary recording studio located in a beautiful 13th-century country house near Barcelona, a temple of music. Maybe I'll continue doing so, creating the musical projects I want without the burden of having a record label. Maybe that's one of the aspects of MoonUnity. 

The Other Side of the Mountain

AAJ: Every time we've talked, there's been a picture of a mountain on the wall behind you. What's the significance of the mountain?

LP: The first country I ever heard of was Uruguay. In 1929, my grand-uncle José Pavkovic—his Spanish name—moved from Herzegovina, then part of the Kingdom of Yugoslavia, to South America. After a few years in Buenos Aires, he moved to Montevideo, Uruguay. He had a great relationship with my grandfather when they were children and maintained an extensive correspondence for more than fifty years. 

When I was little, I lived with my maternal grandparents in an old house in the beautiful ancient city in Bosnia, Jajce, whose origins date back to the Roman Empire and which was the first capital of medieval Bosnia. My grandparents weren't originally from there, but that's where they settled after the World War II. In the 1960s, we lived in an old two-story house and I often looked out the window at a road that led to a large mountain, and sometimes I counted the cars passing by. 

Uncle José wrote his brother, my grandfather, a few times a year, handwritten letters delivered by a postman, a par avion letter from Uruguay to my small town. My grandfather sat my cousin and me on the couch and read the letter to us several times. I knew nothing about America, nothing about Italy, nothing about any country in the world—I only knew about my country Yugoslavia, and Uruguay!

But one day, I think I was about five years old, I asked my grandfather where that road led. My grandfather said the road went around the mountain and then continued on the other side of the mountain. I asked, "What's on the other side of the mountain, Grandpa?" He replied, "There are lakes, rivers, villages, cities, places, so many things." And I asked, "Is Uncle José on the other side of the mountain too? Is Uruguay there too?" And my grandfather said yes. And I replied, "Grandpa, I want to go to the other side of the mountain, discover the world, and meet Uncle José!"

For my twelfth birthday, my grandparents gave me a large illustrated coffee-table book of several hundred pages, a world atlas divided into three parts: one third contained descriptions of all the countries known at the time, one third contained maps of the world divided by regions, and the final third an index. I leafed through it and imagined every single place I wanted to travel to. I was obsessed with Southeast Asia and the Pacific Ocean because there are so many small islands. I had a small notebook where I wrote down how I could get from one island to the next. I was also fascinated because I had seen some documentaries on TV about Paul Gauguin, Robert Louis Stevenson, and Jack London and their adventures in the Pacific. 

I didn't have a happy childhood, not through my grandparents' fault, but I loved fantasizing about traveling the world and escaping forever from the place where I was born and raised. I wanted to disappear and never return to Yugoslavia. Something wasn't right in my life; I wanted to be myself and discover the world, and after so many decades, I believe that's exactly what happened.

Circumstances brought me to Italy, then New York, and finally Spain, and I've visited nearly 90 countries on five continents. This year's festival takes place in the Italian city of Teramo, nestled in a valley at the foot of a great mountain, the Gran Sasso d'Italia. I feel as if I'm, metaphorically, on the other side of the mountain—a world tour that has taken me from Jajce, Bosnia, to Teramo, Abruzzo. Not so far, actually, but it's been a long journey—my lifetime. My life will certainly take me to many more places, but I love the idea of celebrating MoonJune's 25th anniversary in a city at the foot of a big mountain! 

The "other side of the mountain" represents the ultimate journey toward self-discovery, continuous growth, and embracing the unknown. It means that life is an infinite progression of achieving a goal, overcoming a challenge, and looking toward what lies beyond the horizon.