Adam Kahan: Capturing the Essence of Jazz in a Film

AAJ: Buster was a young man at the time. You could imagine that he would be totally thrilled to be playing with these guys, who were already legends.

AK: Yeah, he got a job with two top stars. He got to go on the road with them. And he learned a lot from them musically. So Ammons ditching them was not shocking to anyone, it was just part of the experience. And actually, he stayed on at the club and worked another week, so he just got more experience and another job! Buster just did what worked for him. Like he turned down Miles Davis to go with Nancy Wilson. He did what made sense for him at the time. And Buster has no regrets.

AAJ: It comes across in the film that he found himself at some point. He didn't get caught up in the egotism of the profession. He just did what he wanted to do. One of the great aspects of the film is that Buster is a guy who knew who he was, had a sense of how to live his life humbly yet fully. He didn't fit in with the stereotype of the jazz musician whose life falls apart. Of course there were jazz musicians whose life fits such a stereotype, and drugs and alcohol were often so much a part of that. Nice to see that Buster did not.

AK: Well he and Larry Willis really nail it in the film—what life as a musician is like, or life as an African American jazz musician, and basically what it all means to play this music. They talk about the mentorship and the importance of passing it on. And Buster says about the passage of time, earlier in the film when he's talking with Christian McBride, "I was always the youngest in the band, and now I'm the oldest, I don't know how that happened!" And then the singers he worked with really made a mark on him, like Sarah Vaughan and Nancy Wilson and Dakota Staton and Betty Carter, so there was heavy mentorship there, and that combined with the mentorship from other musicians, like Gene Ammons and Sonny Stitt, and John Houston, the pianist in that band. And when he finds Buddhism, his resolve is thoroughly strengthened.

AAJ: And that's what you get from the film. In the film you can feel the strength. One of the things I love about the film is the direct presence of everything in it. It's not alluded to-it's right there in front of you. I think a lot of that is to your credit. It's an instinct only a few directors have.

AK: Thank you. I appreciate that. I didn't get a lot of formal training, I didn't go to school for film-making, so I'm not a slave to all the rules. Sonelius Smith, the pianist I work with and who is a great friend, likes to go off tempo sometimes when we play, or not follow the changes in a piece of music. He says "I'm not a slave to the music. Slavery is over!" And he's right I think. Some of the rules make me bristle. Like when some films feel compelled to include a celebrity talking head, who may have questionable relation to the subject matter, or whose contribution to the film ain't all that, but they're like—"hey let's get Mick Jagger in there!" Or some "important" critic. Or— "We need a star who will attract a lot of people to the film." Well, that's cool I guess, but I try to maintain as much integrity I can with the film, and part of that is serving the subject or content and doing what is right in relation to him or her or them. I try to do what makes sense, be true, authentic.

When I was making the Rahsaan film, people would say, "you should get Quincy Jones." First of all, Quincy ain't exactly returning my phone calls, but that's an issue on it's own, and sure he'd be relevant because he worked with Rahsaan, but OK. But then others are like "you should get Clint Eastwood, he's really into jazz." But what's the relevance? He likes jazz and he is a star, so what? Well I guess one could assume he'd bring a bucket of money to the film, and that'd be nice, but I think the absence of the star, or the critic, helps keep the intimacy, and I usually try to keep it that way. On the other hand, hey Quincy or Clint, if you want to help me make my next movie, I am open to talking!

There are other tried and true documentary techniques that I avoid as much as possible. Sure sometimes they are necessary, but things like the slow pan into the photo and stuff like that. I don't want the film to feel academic. I want intimacy.

AAJ: Did you ever have your own personal therapy? I ask because there's a feeling that the maker of this film has an intuitive knowledge of people based on his own soul searching.

AK: Thanks. I really appreciate that. I gotta tell my wife. [laughs] I think it has to do with my upbringing. I was brought up by a kind of wacky artist mother. She had her dysfunctional ways but there was a lot of love and caring. I think I always felt that. And sensitivity. Yeah, I think I was brought up with love by women, and I think maybe that helps. Also, as a filmmaker, I'd rather receive, so to speak. It's kind of an idea, some musicians have told me -"don't know nothin.'" Sonelius would say things like this. Also, Marshall Allen, whom I just interviewed, said the same thing, he said "I learned from Sun Ra: 'You don't know nothing.'" And what you don't know is greater and more important than what you do know. The artist Andres Serrano, who I did a film on a long time ago, said something similar. So that's my kind of jumping off point. "I want to discover something" as Buster says. I go into a film like a sponge. Now sometimes, I may poke my subject with an idea or suggestion, which I often do as a matter of fact, but generally speaking, I want to be on the receiving end of whatever gifts or messages my subject sends my way.

AAJ: That's just what I sensed in the film, that the film maker just let the musicians be or play, and be present or a witness to it.

AK: Yes. In a conventional documentary, they often have script, like a written script, or map of what they're going to film. I don't go in with a script. I want the accident to happen. I want the unexpected. I really like it to be open in that way when I make a film.

Upcoming Projects

AAJ: A lot of folks are going to be wanting to know what you're going to be doing next. The project you are currently setting up is a film about Sun Ra. I guess you're going to tell me you "don't know nothin'" [laughs] about your plans.

AK: I do have some plans. My last two films have been about jazz. But I want the world to know -I make non-jazz films too! Or rather, I can and do make films that are not uniquely for a jazz audience. And let's get to that in a minute. But I am presently in development on a film about Sun Ra, which I hope will be a break-through or break-out film for me. I recently told a perspective producer—"I want to break myself and Sun Ra out of jazz prison!" Well in a way Sun Ra broke out a long time ago, but the film I want to make on him is not a jazz-documentary so to speak. It's broader, more universal. Which I still argue—jazz is universal, but still so many people can't dig it. That's another problem in itself. But Sun Ra's story is so rich—born at the start of WWI, conscientious objector during WWII, formative years in 1950's Chicago, from Saturn, and ancient Egypt, has his own spaceship, there is so much.

There are other films I'd like to make. Like I see something shiny, and I rush to it, which I admit is not the most productive. But I do seriously want to make a dramatic film based on Chekhov's Uncle Vanya but with the characters being jazz musicians, and use real jazz musicians as the actors.

But right now my focus is on the Sun Ra film. I was just in Philadelphia at Marshall Allen's house in Germantown the other day. At 97, Marshall is still going strong as the leader of the Sun Ra Arkestra and was of course very close to Sun Ra. He's the keeper of the flame for now.

AAJ: Everything around Sun Ra is so surreal. The combination of that with the real life musicians involved and the time period in which it all happened is a great combination for a film.

AK: I'm trying to get some momentum on the project, so I interviewed Marshall two days ago, and soon I'm going to talk to some of the other guys like Michael Ray, the trumpet player who also plays with Kool and the Gang. And I'm in touch with the Sun Ra estate and we'll get some nice archives and music from them. And we're in touch with a few writers, like John Szwed who wrote the definitive biography, and Thomas Stanley, who's written a really nice book that is kind of out there but in a good way and super-interesting. There's a great documentary called Sun Ra: A Joyful Noise by Robert Mugge, and I've spoken with him too. His film is unique and also not the film I want to make. Mine will hopefully add to the dialogue, add to the continuum.

AAJ: There's so much still to be said about Sun Ra. His influence on jazz was incredible.

Chekov's Uncle Vanya as a Parable for Jazz Musicians

AAJ: How does Uncle Vanya fit into the world of jazz?

AK: Well, Uncle Vanya has this country vs. city theme, and the parallel in my film would probably be Brooklyn vs. Manhattan. And in Uncle Vanya, you know this professor wants to sell the house that all of the characters are living in, so we could do the same, where musicians might be put out on the street by the person who owns their house. Tearing down an old house to make luxury condos! Very New York. And jazz musicians being put out on the street is unfortunately not a fictional idea.

AAJ: Speaking of Uncle Vanya, do you remember that film, Vanya on 42nd Street?

AK: Yes, lovely film. I do want to capture what it would feel like to be in a rehearsal with some musicians.

AAJ: I wonder if you're familiar with a short film by Fellini called The Orchestra Rehearsal.

AK: I'm familiar with a lot of Fellini's films, but not that one. I'll have to check it out.

AAJ: It's about twenty minutes long, and I don't want to tell you too much about it because it would spoil it. It's a very meaningful film, with sad implications for society at large, and yet from the perspective of what we know about musicians, it's absolutely hilarious!

AK: I thought I knew all of Fellini, but there you go -another thing I don't know! But some of my ideas for the Vanya film actually came out of the Buster film. It would be a narrative, a story, but might have that verité feel. This is just my latest fantasy: there are others!

AAJ: Fantasy is what makes things happen creatively. Thank you for speaking with us Adam. And please do keep up the good work.

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