A Conversation with Don Braden

This interview was first published in two parts at All About Jazz on May 1999.

In this interview, we chat with Don Braden about his views on MP3 files, his relationship with Bill Cosby, the impact Kenny Kirkland had on his latest album for RCA Victor, Fire Within, and a host of other related and unrelated things. It's Braden, at home, from the heart, unedited, and in his own words.

All About Jazz: Let's start from the beginning.

Don Braden: Basically, I grew up in Louisville, Kentucky and my early exposure to the music came from the classic rhythm and blues stuff, mostly from the Jackson 5 and bands like that, the classic rhythm and blues bands, Aretha Franklin, Stevie Wonder, that type of thing. I'm basically from a non-musical family. My parents raised me in the suburbs of Kentucky. I got into music in high school with the marching band and that was my first real playing experience. I was really interested in playing music, from the time I heard it from those early days, listening to Isaac Hayes and Grover Washington, Jr. and all of this stuff. I didn't really know what that meant.

I went to school. I got a chance to play an instrument and I took it. I pursued my childhood fantasy of just wanting to play music. I got involved in the social scene of the marching band and all that stuff and the whole music scene. That was a lot of fun. I got into jazz because of the high school pep band or stage band. We used to play at basketball games and stuff. We used to play jazzy tunes. It wasn't really a jazz group, but we played jazzy tunes and I got interested in improvisation. I used to turn on the radio and just jam with the radio. That was my main expressive outlet in those days. Musically, it was the beginning of my improvisation, just jamming with the radio. Then I joined a, in Kentucky, I joined a couple of bands. Over those years when I was in high school, I worked with this rock band for a while and I worked with this other group that played instrumental funk music like Grover Washington and David Sanborn. He was popular, really popular in those days, and the Crusaders and all these different kinds of bands. I learned all that stuff. I got into real jazz later in high school when I met Jamey Aebersold (owner of Double-Time Jazz), who is a big jazz educator down in Indiana. He really turned me on to Sonny Rollins and Joe Henderson, Coltrane and Miles Davis.

I got myself pretty disciplined and I practiced a lot in high school. One of the first real, distinctive things that I did was I became a member of the McDonald's All—American High School Band, which was a pretty big deal in those days. It not so much, I don't know if it exists anymore, but in those days that was something that a lot of high school kids who were playing really wanted to be a part of. They took two kids from every state and I was one of the two from Kentucky and we came to New York and played in Carnegie Hall. We marched in the Macy's Parade and all this stuff, so it was really cool. That was the first real indication to me that I thought that I might be able to make a living doing this at some point. Whatever that means. Of course, I'm a sixteen-year-old kid and I don't know what making a living means, but I thought going out and working would be a possibility since I had a little bit of distinction. But I was still thinking about being an engineer, so I went ahead and got into Harvard and went there. I started up as a chemistry major and ended up as a computer major and ultimately dropped out to check out and pursue my musical adventure. I intended to take one year off to see if music was what I really wanted to do and move to New York for that year. When I got to New York in 1985, I started getting work later that year.

I met Betty Carter earlier the next year in '86. I got with Wynton Marsalis later that year and then from there I started getting real gigs. I didn't actually, I've never gone back to school as yet. My one year off turned into about fifteen so far. That's been an interesting fifteen years to be sure since I'd always intended to go back to school. I've had a continuous, pretty much a continuous stream of gigs, although along the way, alongside my path as a professional musician, I was also got my opportunities to do some computer consulting work. Since I had enjoyed computers while I was in school, I went ahead and took some of this work and it was very interesting to balance the two, the professional saxophonist and the professional computer programmer. I was carrying laptops around on the tour buses. It was very interesting.

I was with Wynton Marsalis from '86 to '87, for about seven months in there. I did some gigs with Betty Carter over a period from '86 to '88 and made a record with her called Look What I Got (Verve), which won a Grammy. Then in 1987, I started doing tours with Tony Williams as a sub for Billy Pierce and I made a whole lot of tours with him between '86 and '91. In 1989, I joined Freddie Hubbard's East Coast band and I did about two and half years with that group, touring around the world. That was really wonderful, playing with Freddie Hubbard. He's one of my idols when I was younger. I finished with that in 1991. In 1990, I started making CDs as a leader. The first one was called The Time is Nowon Criss Cross and I made three more, two more for Criss Cross and several for other labels, including the two most recent for RCA Victor, The Voice of the Saxophone and The Fire Within. In 1994, I joined Tom Harrell's band for about three years, a quintet. We had a group that toured around quite a bit. All along the way, I've been working as a leader doing gigs with my quartet that I've had over the years. Here in the last couple of years, I've been doing a lot more as a leader.

AAJ: Let's touch on your time with Tom Harrell, Wynton Marsalis, and Tony Williams.

DB: First off, Wynton. The Wynton Marsalis gig was my first major gig. There are probably closer to seven or eight very significant, major influences on me as far as people I've worked with because Roy Haynes, Freddie Hubbard, Betty Carter are also just as important. Wynton Marsalis was my first major touring gig. That was an amazing experience on a lot of different levels. I was only twenty-three when I joined him, very much a green horn, essentially a computer geek out of Harvard. I knew my way around the horn pretty well, but not really knowing what I was doing, other than having studied some stuff at Harvard and having studied some with Jamey Aebersold and knowing the basics but really having any experience, but still being pretty disciplined and pretty knowledgeable as far as the experience that I had. It was an amazing experience because it was some of the most high profile gigs out there at the time. Wynton was very hot in those days with the quintet. That group was Jeff Watts, Bob Hurst, Marcus Roberts, and myself and Wynton (Braden was Branford Marsalis' replacement in that band).

In a way I was kind of in over my head because those guys were all initially more experienced than I was, yet I always found a way to contribute and I learned a tremendous amount from the situation. It did put me in front of a lot of folks and it definitely put me on the map in terms of the industry. Professionally, it really made me focus on what was important, which is swing and having a great sound. Those issues were really constantly being addressed in that band. Then there were a lot of other issues. A lot of advanced harmony things to deal with, some rhythmic things that were pretty sophisticated that we addressed. Then there was the whole issue of traveling was addressed in the scenario. Working with Wynton was great because he's super-focused and super-intelligent, a great musician, really serious cat. He's got a side to him that's educational and kind of, not quite sympathetic, but he knew what I was going through in a way as being young guy coming out here and jumping out there on the road and hitting it hard. So I learned a lot from him, just based on the camaraderie that we all, in the band, had.

We were trying, as young people in the eighties, trying to find out how to really swing and play jazz well. It was a great experience for me. Definitely very difficult because they were playing stuff that was pretty hard. In some ways, some of it was beyond where I was, but it was still just in reach. I was just able to hang in there and deal and it was really great. That's pretty much Wynton.

Tony Williams was my first major, real historical, other than Betty Carter. Betty Carter was actually the first historical jazz artist that I worked with, the first major one. But Tony was the first one that I had extended time with and he's the first instrumentalist that I worked with. He's the first guy that I really have been listening to for years as part of Miles Davis scenario before I got to work with him. I have a lot of his latest stuff too with Herbie Hancock's V. S. O. P. groups and all this stuff. It was really amazing to work with him considering I really listened to him a lot, being a drummer that was part of such a pivotal group in my own development. The Miles Davis groups and the Herbie Hancock groups of those days when Tony was playing with them were groups I listened to constantly in the eighties. Boy, to work with him was really amazing. Now he's a guy that really forced me to really deal with my sound because he played so loud. He was unbelievable. My ears were ringing after every gig. It was just really amazing. His music was very difficult and that was a big challenge for me harmonically. But luckily, I had been through the Wynton Marsalis situation so it really kind of trained me to deal with certain levels of music that I hadn't really dealt with before. And the Tony Williams situation, basically, I had gotten that call because I had taken some lessons with Billy Pierce a few years earlier when I was at Harvard. Billy was working with Tony during those days. Billy couldn't make all the gigs on the seven week tour, so they called me for half of it. Then they called me for subsequent tours that Billy couldn't make. As I got into it, I really got my act together, really.

And sonically, sound-wise, I really started getting some real control over my chops and really dealing with projecting my sound in the high powered Tony Williams situation. Plus, I really got myself to the point where I could really play the harmony pretty well. So it worked out pretty well, specially over the long term. It was a tremendous learning experience. I've got several video tapes from those days that people have taped because in Europe in those days, during the '80s, they were taping a lot of the stuff. I've got some real nice videos from those days. Tony himself was a real intense kind of a cat. I know there was a part of him that was really interested in the whole rock and pop scene. And so some of that would really come through in his temperament on occasion, in that, sometimes the jazz turnouts weren't that great, although for the most part we had great turnouts. Everywhere Tony played, people came out to hear him. But I found him to be really cool and definitely all business. Show up on time and all that kind of stuff. He was really an all business kind of a cat, and definitely really serious about music, very, very serious. We all mirrored that attitude so everyone was working hard to play their butt off on this hard music. I'll tell you what, after going through that gig for a few years, subsequent gigs, in terms of harmonically, were no problem because his stuff was really challenging. It worked out very well.

Now, probably the next major gig after that, that ended in 1991, I was paralleling him and Freddie Hubbard. I joined Freddie in 1989 and finished with him in '91. The next major gig after that was the Tom Harrell gig. Now, the cool thing about Tom is that his writing is really brilliant. His stuff was hard too, although probably not as hard as Tony's overall, but still really hard. After playing Tony's gig, playing Tom's gig was not quite the challenge that it would have been because I had been through Tony's music and so I'd had a lot of harmonic training at that point, as well as rhythmic and sound. So by the time I got to Tom, I was pretty mature. This is 1994. I'm over thirty. I'm thirty-one at that point or at least thirty. I think I turned thirty-one when I started working with Tom. I'd had some playing. I was no longer a green horn. I had actually done some playing. I had a few records out, so I actually brought some confidence to that gig which was really great. Tom's temperament, as it's well known, he's clinically schizophrenic and so he had a widely varying personality based on his physical condition. I learned to be really patient and supportive in the face of that. It worked out really well because we developed a good relationship and to this day, I worked with him on the big band record that he just did. It will come out later this year or next year. I think this year it will come out actually. I played on it and did some other assistant production type work on it. The relationship that I have with him is really good because there is a bond of trust that's come from all the years of my being on the road with him and just looking out for him. And plus, he's played on my first couple of records as well. He's played on "The Time is Now" and he played on "Wish List" and he played on another record of mine too. He played on Organic, on a few tunes. Musically, it's always been a good fit, even from that first record back in 1990, we had a good musical fit. When it came time for him to put this band together in 1994, I was very honored and glad to work with him. We did a lot of touring from 1994 through '96 or so, and some more gigs in '97 before that band broke up with Billy Hart and Kenny Werner and Larry Grenadier. We had a quintet that toured around for a couple of years and then he broke up that band and did something else. That's the synopsis of three of my major employers.

AAJ: Let's not leave the other three out, Freddie Hubbard, Roy Haynes, and Betty Carter.

DB: It's pretty much the same story. Pretty much I jumped in, the Betty Carter story was different because she was really my first major artist. She's the one that really addressed, she taught me about pacing and she taught me about swing. She was really intense. She was not one to hold back. She would tell you, "Man, you don't sound good." She said what she though so that was interesting. Ultimately, it of course worked out to be for the best. When she told you something, usually it was what the deal was and it was to your advantage to pay attention to it and I did, certainly to whatever she told me. She was influence on me, based on that. Working with her was such an honor because she is such a creative musician anyway.

Freddie was, he's been my idol musically, so just being beside him night after night, with that consistency, he and Tony in particular were the most consistent musicians. Those cats were always a hundred percent on, even though Freddie had a tendency to rest, not putting five hundred percent of his ability, because he is so brilliant. Even at, even when he's coasting a little bit, he just sounds amazing all the time, especially being beside him night after night. He just never sounded bad, except on a couple of occasions where substance abuse kicked in and introduced problems. And that's pretty documented as well. That's happened over the years to him, but that was pretty rare. For the most part he always sounded good, whatever condition he was in. I did a lot of touring with him and made a live record as well as a couple videos. I learned a lot from him. He had the biggest sound and the most powerful swing out there, on almost any instrument. It was pretty amazing.

Haynes was great. Haynes was great because he was so fresh and inventive all the time. Plus, he's really a melodist. This man loves melodies, so he's a guy that made me really deal with playing melodies one hundred times a day to get the thing right. Which is what you have to do sometimes. To learn a melody well, you learn, you play it a hundred times a day or fifty times a day for a while until you get it really together. Musicians don't want to repeat themselves enough, but classical musicians are always repeating to practice stuff and get it together. Jazz musicians don't seem to want to do that as much, but it's just as important for us as it is for the classical guys sometimes, just to get a melody and to play it beautifully. Practice and just repeat it. Haynes was really focused on that. He always wanted to make sure that the melody was always really strong. That's where he's at. The other thing with him is his sense of rhythm, of course, is outrageous. So working with him was a constant game of tennis, tossing the rhythm back and forth and exploring it. It was really a joy working with him. In fact, I have a gig with him in about a month. He just called me last night. We're going to Atlanta to play in the festival down there. So that's exciting.

AAJ: Any other influences?

DB: Definitely. Freddie Hubbard was one of those. Herbie Hancock has always been one. The saxophone players, Wayne Shorter, Sonny Rollins, Coltrane, of course, Dexter Gordon, Oliver Nelson, Benny Golson, Harold Vick, those are the main guys. There are different periods. I must have mentioned Wayne Shorter. Those guys through different periods, depending on where I was at, at a given time were a big influence for a while. I went through a big Wayne period, where I was truly checking out Wayne. I went through a Dexter Gordon period where that was my man. Then a huge Sonny Rollins period where I was just checking out him for swing and sound, Oliver Nelson for the sound and for the writing, Golson for the writing, Harold Vick, I just loved the way he played. Different cats than what's happening, but not as much these days. I'm so focused on trying to get my own act together that I haven't been doing a lot of real regular listening. But I still, Dexter Gordon is in my CD player now. He, kind of, stays there. There's always a Sonny Rollins near by, and some Joe Henderson, my first influence as well. I have some Joe in there.

AAJ: What albums are we talking about here?

DB: The Dexter record is called A Swingin' Affair (Blue Note). I'm into that one these days, quartet record. Joe Henderson, I listen to him mostly, the record I listen to of him the most was The Real McCoy (Blue Note). It's a McCoy Tyner record. That's the one that was my first big Joe, my first introduction to Joe. I also love Joe on the Cape Verdean Blues(Blue Note) with Horace Silver. Woody Shaw is on that record and he's also a big influence. He's really an amazing trumpet player, writer, and individualist. That's one of my favorite records. I loveMy Funny Valentine (Columbia) by Miles Davis. George Coleman's on that and he's one of my favorites as well. That's just one of those records that's an overall killing record. That's one of those records, the McCoy Tyner one too, where I know all the solos. I can walk down the street and sing every solo, bass solo, piano solo, saxophone solo, trumpet solo, all the solos.

AAJ: So what was your first jazz record?

DB: My first record was a Grover Washington record. One of the first ones that I remember was Grover Washington Live at the Bijou (Motown). Then I got a lot of other Grover Washington right around that same period. The first jazz record I remember really listening to was The Real McCoy. That was one of the very first ones. I had a couple of others but that was the one that I listened to the most. The vinyl version of that, that I have is probably pretty worn out because I really used to hit it pretty hard in those days. I have CD's of everything now, just so I don't wear things out. I keep all my vinyl, actually, I'm moving all my vinyl up to my attic because I've got so much downstairs. I've got to move it upstairs. I don't listen to it that much. It's just kind of downstairs, in harms way. I'd rather keep it upstairs.

AAJ: Do you listen to anything your peers are putting out?

DB: Yes, I check out a lot of my peers. I like to see what they're doing. I have records by most of the cats. I have Branford's and Wynton's and the Mark Turner, Greg Tardy, Seamus Blake, Chris Potter. I usually try and get, at the very least I check the stuff out and most of the times I buy it just to support my colleagues and all. If I feel that I can't afford that or whatever, I'll at least go and check the stuff out. I do pay pretty close attention. Ron Blake is on a couple of good records. We're on a record together with Art Farmer (Silk Road on Arabesque).

AAJ: What do you recommend?

DB: I like Branford's new record.

AAJ: Requiem.

DB: Yes, Requiem. Terence's new record sounds beautiful, sounds wonderful, the movie one.

AAJ: Jazz in Film.

DB: Right, I really was a big fan of Kenny Kirkland. I really listened to his record a lot, back in the day when it came out (Kenny Kirkland on GRP). I have quite a few of Wynton's records as well, although I don't have anything recent. I think I have, I buy most of his stuff to really keep up with what he's doing. I'm always impressed with what he does for the most part. Who else do I like? Craig Handy's got a couple of good records. He has a record that was out a few years ago called Three for All Plus One or something like that (Introducing Three for All & One).

AAJ: On Arabesque.

DB: Yes, on Arabesque. He does an acoustic version of "Spinning Wheel" that's pretty fun. That's kind of what I'm into these days.

AAJ: Do you plan on going back to Harvard?

DB: Yes, I will go back and, I'm not certain that I'll go back to Harvard and finish necessarily, but I do intend to get some of my degrees including advanced degrees. One of the reasons for this is that I want to get the job done, not the job, but get the degrees completed. I'm a big proponent of education and I really do have to practice what I preach. In my teaching experience, I've got quite a bit of teaching experience as far as teaching music and I've been approached by some university situations, by some universities to teach in university situations and it's hard to prosper in academia without having your degrees in order. Academia is very credential conscience. There are teaching jobs that I can do as far as credential wise. Of course, experience wise, it's no problem. I've been doing jazz with the real cats for years and years. As far as professional experience, it's no problem, but in terms of credentials, I really have to get that together if I'm going to pursue some teaching stuff down the road. So between wanting to get the degrees completed and looking at a career in education maybe down the line, possibly, than the degrees will be, I will be completing those degrees eventually.

AAJ: Funny, you should mention your interest in engineering, you certainly would have made more money.

DB: True (laughing). But, I probably wouldn't be as happy. I'm about as happy a guy as you'll run into overall. I really do what I love to do. I've been reasonably successful and I have fun all the time. I don't travel constantly. I still am home quite a bit so I get to hang out with my wife and everything like that. I have a good scene here at home, so I'm pretty happy. I've done a lot of pretty heavy duty computer work over the years and I've had a lot of fun doing it, but it's not nearly as fun as going around playing my saxophone and writing music and creating, not nearly.

AAJ: So you're a homebody?

DB: In a way, yes. Me and my wife, we have a great time together and like I said, I have a great scene here. I have a studio here. I work on a lot of music here at the house, practice and all that stuff. I've got a nice garden and all. I like to be home, but I also like to travel. I'm a fitness-head, so I'm always out running or working out or outside doing something.

AAJ: Let's touch on your computer programming.

DB: I was always fascinated with computers. I can remember even from my early days in Kentucky, being fascinated with calculators when they first became common in the seventies and just really being drawn to the whole thing of numbers and having to add and count and multiply. Even the displays, the red numbers in those early calculators was stimulating. I've been drawn to gadgets for a long time. Then in college, I started off as a chemistry major and I realized that in the first semester I had a chemistry course and a computer course and I was much more interested in the computer stuff than I was in chemistry because I started off as pre-med. When you get to Harvard level work, you go for what you're good at. I was not good at chemistry and I was good at computers. So that's what I went with and it worked out very well because my whole fascination with gadgets and numbers and calculations and logic became stimulated and enhanced. It worked out very well. It worked out to be very interesting for me to stick with that computer thing.

DB: Definitely. No question about it. There are a lot of us now a days that are using computers in various aspects of our music creation. The ability to organize your thoughts and think creatively in the same breath, creatively and logically at the same time, which is a hallmark of jazz expression, it's very helpful in the understanding and dealing with computers.

AAJ: How are you utilizing that technology?

DB: A lot of ways. First off, I do use computers for all the notation of all my music, so it's like a word processor for example, correspondent to using a word processor in writing, using a software notation program to do music notation is a great thing. Once I get it in, I can edit it, change the key, do whatever I want, transpose it to whatever instrument. I can even have the computer play it back for me and check it for accuracy. It is much, much easier and faster and overall, way more efficient than writing this stuff. It's also much better for your hands. Writing lots of stuff with your hands is actually pretty bad for your hands. Typing is not so great either, but with computers it's so much more efficient to get the stuff in. I can play the stuff in from my keyboard. I don't have to type in the notes. I can actually use the keyboard to enter the notes, so it works out great. I also use computers to maintain my web page. I use it for emailing, mailing list management, database management for all my different kinds of gigs and contacts and things like that. I also use the computer for sequencing, for practicing. I can play all my original tunes, for example, I have them all in computers so I can practice with them. I have the computer connected to a synthesizer, a passable imitation of an acoustic bass, and a passable piano, and a passable for the drums. I can practice everyday, six hours a day on my tunes and whatever tunes I choose to put in the computer, transpose them to any key, play tunes in all twelve keys, without having to wear cats out, bringing them over here for six hours a day to play. I love to do that too, but you can't bring cats over everyday because they have to make a living. When you can't get your cats than the computer is one more possibility as far as practice.

AAJ: And the web address?

DB: The web page is http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/donbraden. Depending if I'm on tour a lot like I have been this year, it's been a couple of months since I've updated it, or I'll do it every two or three days if stuff is really hopping. This month, I'm in some so I will probably be in there every three or four days changing stuff. I've got to upload some sound bites from my record. I've got to upload schedule updates. I've got a bunch of new pictures digitized that I've got to put in that people have sent me and that I've scanned and stuff. So there is plenty of stuff to do that I'll probably end up doing every few days depending on just how my schedule goes while I'm here.

AAJ: Are you a closet techie?

DB: Definitely (laughing), no question about it. Ever since I was little kid, I've been a tech junkie and it's on going. I'm more of a music junkie, but I'm definitely, in addition to being a music junkie, I'm definitely a tech junkie. I have all kinds of toys that I like to play with.

AAJ: Name one.

DB: Well, I have a, the latest thing that I've been into is the digital editing thing. I've got a nice computer and I have this really cool digital editing software. I've got a good sound card, so I move stuff in and out of the computer and play around with editing it. And within the computer, you can do all kinds of sound processing, equalization, compression. I've been learning about all this stuff. Basically, I've been educating myself in the process of audio sound design and mastering. It's been tremendous. I just bought some software yesterday that does some of the stuff that a lot of people use for mastering. It has really cool processing. I've learned all about compression, just through the computer. I have a little sound bite and I'm playing some saxophone. I run it through the compressor, change the numbers around the computer and listen to what happens. It very closely mimics what a real hardware compressor does, so I've learned a lot about the process of compression, for example, so that's kind of my current adventure.

AAJ: With the advent of the internet and the upside that the internet has in the future, is it a good investment for artists to utilize the internet to promote themselves?

DB: Definitely. I mean, it depends on where you are at in your career. If you are a professional sideman, it's not worth the hassle, but if you're a bandleader or a composer trying to get your music out there, than yes, the internet is something that's worth exploring for sure. There's all these different formats, the MP3, the Real Audio, are things that need to be understood by musicians because the legal implications of our music. For example, in MP3 format being distributed over the net are just beginning to be understood but we need to be on the ground floor, we musicians, so we need to understand what's going on. For your own edification and for the musician's edification professionally, I think it's important to understand the net, even if you don't use it yourself. Even if you don't jump in there and want to create your own stuff, at least you have to know what's happening.

AAJ: What are your feelings over the controversy that is surrounding the MP3 format?

DB: It can be used without the artist and the record company getting hurt. It can be, sure. But it's going to be a challenge. There's greedy folks out there and all. It's going to be hard. There's plenty of room for abuse. That's the biggest problem with the MP3 since it can just be copied and distributed, essentially freely, once one person buys a song for fifty cents or a quarter or whatever, and they can just give it to all their friends. It diminishes the returns that an artist would see. That's going to be a hard one. The flip side to that is the artist can actually do his own, I've got plenty of gear here to do my own MP3s and put them out there. There are definitely risks and there's some definite bugs to be worked out first before it's going to be an all desirable, win-win scenario for everybody. I think it is possible. I haven't thought about it enough to figure out exactly what it would take, but I'm pretty confident that there is going to be some way to work it out for this stuff to make sense and we'll all benefit from it.

AAJ: You have a unique relationship with Bill Cosby.

DB: Oh ya. I'm the music supervisor, one of the music supervisors for his current show, which is called "Cosby" and comes on CBS on Monday at 8. I've been doing that for three seasons now. We're just finishing up a third season now and the show is renewed for the fourth season, although I'm not sure that I'm renewed yet. They seem to like what I do so there's a decent chance that I will be back for next year. I see him, during the shooting days, I see him pretty much every week if I'm in town. I'll go to the shooting. I go see him and we talk about music, either music for the show or just music in general. He's a big jazz fan. I was fortunate enough that he really liked my, this record that I just did the "Fire Within." He told me that, which is nice. He played on "The Voice of the Saxophone." He actually came because I did the "Cosby" theme song on that record ("Monk's Hat"). He came into the studio and actually played cowbells, which was great. That worked out very well. We worked on some other projects together as well. He's had me working on some other music things that he's got going. I'm very pleased to get to work with him. Benny Golson introduced us (Benny wrote "Monk's Hat" with Cosby) a few years back when Benny decided to kind of take me under his wing. That's worked out very well too because he's been somebody I've really checked out over the years, a great master of the saxophone and of composition. Actually, we're doing a gig together, Benny and I, with the New Jersey Giants of Jazz on the fifteenth of May, over here in New Jersey. Benny introduced me to Dr. Cosby. It's been a very fruitful relationship with Dr. C and I. I've been blessed with that.

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