Mark Wingfield: The Continuing Evolution of the Electric Guitar

AAJ: When describing what you were trying to capture in the studio, you used the word "nuance" in the answer, two previous questions ago. For me, this is an acute choice of words, as the clarity of this recording truly does reveal the depth of nuance between the three of you; it's as crystal clear as any recording in recent memory. Did you avoid using compression in the post-production and mastering?

MW: I don't use compression unless it's really necessary because this sort of music needs to keep as much of its dynamic range as possible. A lot of the expression is going on with dynamics. Other music can be different, I mean sometimes you want a lot of compression in order to create a certain sound. But for most jazz related music, in my view, you don't want to remove any more dynamic range than necessary to get things to sit well together in the mix. But almost all band mixes do need some compression somewhere.

Compression can be used in subtle ways on single channels, to add punch and control the low frequencies without actually changing the overall dynamic range noticeably. So I did use some compression, but no more than I needed to to create space and solidity in the low frequencies. I also used some transient shaping, which is a technology related to compression, to control how long the bass drum resonated for on each hit. I wanted to be able to control that differently for different pieces. If we had damped the kick drum too much, it wouldn't have had enough resonance on the slow, quieter pieces. But for the faster, louder tracks, I needed to shorten the resonance, otherwise the low end would have been swamped. I didn't use compressors on the two bus when mixing this album, that's something I would avoid with this type of music.

I know some people like to write in automation to control dynamics, but I think compression, if used correctly, can give a more natural result. When you start writing detailed volume automation, you are injecting your own ideas about how loud someone should be playing each note or phrase. For jazz related music, I think that's too invasive; where as gentle and carefully-tailored compression can reveal details in a particular instrument without actually changing the overall dynamics of the way a musician played. Again, I think different rules apply to different types of music.

AAJ: This is all quite fascinating, Mark. I had heard it mentioned that you were an extraordinary producer (in addition to your obviously considerable skills as a guitarist and composer). There is a definite, discernible parallel between your approach to creating guitar tones and your approach to miking, mixing and coloring sound while wearing the hat of a production/post-production engineer.

How did you get started in audio production, and what production credits have you amassed to this point in your life? Are you formally trained (as an audio engineer)?

MW: From very early on when I wasn't practicing I was messing around with effects, setting up studios with friends, recording and mixing. So I've always been immersed in it. I think I had a pretty good grasp of parametric EQs and delays by the time I was 18. As time went on, I learned more about sound and engineering, along side the guitar and music. I've always been fascinated with recording and production; I still am.

When plugins started to sound decent in the mid to late 2000's, things really opened up. In the past five years or so, they've become as good as the hardware and are now increasingly overtaking it. This means I no longer have to hire a big studio to get a great sound when I mix. I can do it in my own production studio in my house. You do have to spend some money getting someone really good to design acoustic treatment for your room. Foam on the walls isn't going to do it. You really do need high quality traps correctly positioned if you'e going to mix or master. The guys at RealTraps designed mine and did an amazing job. You also need a pair of great monitors—I use Adam P11s—and a good DAC, for which I use TC and RME. But you really don't need anything else now. You no longer need to spend a huge fortune on a mixing console and outboard gear to mix. I don't even own a mixing console anymore, and my hardware racks have sat there unused for some time now.

I mainly produce and mix my own music, though I am open to working on other projects. For example, I am mastering Ligro's new album for MoonJune Records at the moment. I've been interested in audio production for almost as long as I've been interested in the guitar. I think it comes from the fact that I see creating and crafting sound as a natural extension of composing. I work with atmospheres when I compose. I will get a feeling or an atmosphere and then render that into music, by writing the notes which, for me, recreate that feeling. Sound can be part of that. So a particular keyboard sound, drum sound or, of course, guitar sound can be part of what will create or embellish an atmosphere in the music I'm composing.

This approach led to the necessity for me to construct and manipulate sounds. If I just stick with the stock sounds, the normal guitar sounds, every day keyboard sounds, etc., there is a limit to the variety of atmospheres these can evoke for me. So if I want to be able to create any atmosphere which comes up when composing, I have to be able to create or mould a sound to make that happen. This attracted me early on to synthesisers, because you can create sounds from the ground up. Then, when the Roland VG-88 came out, it was possible to start moulding guitar sounds on a deeper level. That allowed me for the first time to be able to create the imaginary guitar sounds I was hearing in my head—sounds I just couldn't get from ordinary guitar amps and effects.

Crafting a guitar sound to me is very much the same process as producing and mixing. Many of the actual principles that underly guitar sounds, synths sounds and mixing in the studio are the same. You are shaping frequencies, envelopes and dynamics, and you are working with space and texture. So, for me, there is a real continuum in the way I think about sound on the guitar and sound in mixing.

AAJ: "Atmospheric" would be a good word to use to characterize your music and, indeed, your guitar textures, also. (which, in turn, carries over into your production and end results.)

When preparing for this interview, I went back and listened to an album I have of your original duet with Kevin Kastning, as well as sampling some of your ensemble work and viewing some of your various duet performances you've posted on your YouTube channel. This atmospheric nature of both your tonal qualities and your technical delivery seems to lend itself well to the intimate setting of a duet or trio. I read somewhere (I think it was an article by Barry Cleveland) that your duet work with Kevin was completely, on-the-spot improvisations ... is this accurate?

MW: Yes, almost all of what we record is. On the four albums we have done together, which consist of fifty six pieces, there were only four which were not live in the studio. Kevin and I can only get together when I happen to be in the US or he's in the UK, which since we've been working together has been about once a year. Typically, we go into the studio for two or sometimes three days and then don't see each other again for another year, though we do regularly communicate via email and Skype. There have been two occasions where, after the recording when I was back in the UK, Kevin had a new and unique instrument built which we were both very keen on using in a recording. On these occasions Kevin recorded a couple of tracks on his own, leaving space for me to overdub my part here in my studio. So on these four pieces, though both parts are completely improvised, they were not recorded live. But all the other 52 tracks we've released so far have been live in the studio.

Playing with Kevin is an amazing experience because he's such a great improvisor; the musical world and places he can create are vast. Also, he has created such a unique musical pallet on the instruments he designs. They are still acoustic guitars, but when you have an instrument with 36 stings, as he does, it becomes almost orchestral in the harmonies he can explore.

When we sit down to record neither of us knows what we were about to play. We might discuss a few simple things, like tempo or register, before hand—or often not even that. So what you hear is live in the studio with no overdubs. Our concept is to compose in real time, as we play. So it's not a free-for-all or anything like free jazz. We are playing as if there is a composed piece, even though there isn't. This means that we have to listen really closely in every moment and be prepared to turn corners together at any instant. It's challenging, but I've found all our sessions really inspiring—partly because this approach allows us to go to places there is no other way to get to. Many of these musical places have been in the recesses of my imagination and have a very strong musical significance to me. So it's great to have found a way to get to and explore them.

We will be playing along and we'll turn a corner together, and I'll think, 'Ah. we're here! I've always wanted to visit this place.' It's not like I actually think these words, or any words, this is just a way of describing a momentary realization. For me, thinking gets in the way when improvising, but there are momentary realizations. There are also instantaneous decisions, like a scale choice or sometimes you see a fork in the road, or a potential door come along which could be opened and you might choose to open it, or not. But any decision or realization needs to be instantaneous: any actual thinking would interrupt the flow.

From my point of view the same can be said for any improvisation. You have to endeavour to stay out of the way and let the music happen through you. My improvising on Proof of Light, for example, though very different from what I do with Kevin, is still about being in the moment and reacting to how the music makes you feel and to what the other musicians area playing.

AAJ: How does your approach to improvising (with Kevin)—where the entirety of what you record is purely spontaneous, with no structure or even forethought with regard to musical direction—different from playing a solo over a set structure in a group setting?

MW: With most of the music I do, like with the trio, we are working with a composition. So we have a written melody and chord progression which we use to structure what we do. I see the way I approach this is as a kind of musical story telling. When I play a solo I am improvising within the changing harmonic story told by the chords. The chord progressions I write usually tell an emotional story or create an atmosphere, which I was feeling when I composed them. These are often stories of events and times in the life of real or imagined people. But it can also be more abstract than that, it can be about an imagined place, or feeling which has it's own existence independent of anyone in particular. When I compose, I take these impressions and write the notes that recreate the feelings in musical form. Then, when the other musicians and myself improvise, we play within the context of this musical story.

AAJ: There is a real discernible musical camaraderie between the two of you; when I first heard you and Kevin, although quite dissimilar in many ways, the chemistry between you and the space you allow one another to interject reminded me of the musical kinsmanship between Ralph Towner and John Abercrombie, many decades ago, when they recorded several duet albums for ECM. How did you and Kevin cross paths, and how did you guys decide to go into a studio, let the recorders roll and just improvise? ... Whose idea was this?

MW: Billy Shepard is a journalist who both Kevin and I knew before we knew about each other's music. Billy suggested that I should check out Kevin's music, as he thought I would really like it. When I heard it I immediately felt there was a musical connection there so I got in touch and we agreed to set up a recording session. We will be releasing our fifth album later this year.

Despite our very different approach to the guitar we have a lot in common in other ways. We are both composers and have a very similar set of influences. We both love the music which emerged from ECM in the 70's and 80's Jan Garbarek, Keith Jarrett, Ralph Towner etc... as well as people like Miles Davis. We also have similar classical influences, such as Elliot Carter, Bartok, Morton Feldman, Shostakovich and and many others. Interestingly, we are also fans of certain prog rock music, like Yes and Peter Gabriel.

The idea of recording improvised pieces with nothing planned is Kevin's. He does a lot of this kind of thing. When we recorded our first album, although Kevin was used to this approach, I had never recorded anything in this way so it was quite an experience. The red light goes on and you just have to make it happen! I had done the occasional piece like this in live performances a few times and of course at home but, the idea of recording an album in this way was really new to me. However with Kevin it was immediately clear in that first session that this approach was allowing us to go to places there is no other way to get to.

AAJ: That explains a lot—on several different levels. I can only imagine what a confident, fearless mindset is required to go into a studio and record in such a manner, with no preconception or established structures, whatsoever!

Although Proof of Light was released earlier this year, it was recorded back in May of last year (2014). Obviously, you had to prepare chord charts and you were probably (at least mentally) mapping out the arrangements and direction you wanted to go with each respective piece, prior to entering the studio. As a musician—strictly as a guitarist (not composer, arranger, etc.)—how does your preparation differ from recording in a group setting, with a rhythm section, versus recording with Kevin Kastning—with just two improvising guitars? What is the focus of your work and preparation as a musician on your instrument prior to going into two such completely different musical settings?

MW: In a setting like the trio, where we are playing pieces based on a chord progression and melody, then I will make sure I'm familiar with each piece, but not so much that I don't need the music in front of me during the session. If there are parts which are particularly difficult to play, then I'll have put more rehearsal time into those. For other parts I will rehearse less, because I may want to alter them slightly to suit how the music feels with the other players during the session. I may, for example, make changes to the written timing of some notes in a melody if it feels better during the actual session.

The sort of chord changes I write usually don't fit into any key and I don't normally think in terms of keys. I'm usually changing scale for each chord in the progression and, the way I compose, each change is pretty significant and part of the story of the piece. I'm so used to this sort of playing that I don't really need to rehearse playing over the changes in most cases. I will try playing over them a few times just to see how it feels, and if there is some tricky spot, of course, I'll work on that. For example, if I have an unusual chord like a Major 7,b5,#9—or something like that, which needs a special scale—I will have made notes on the chord chart about which scale I intend to use. But apart from cases like that, I don't tend to rehearse playing over the changes much; I like to keep the feeling spontaneous.

With Kevin, there's nothing to rehearse and so there is no specific preparation. Though Kevin and I will spend time discussing things in emails before the session, and we'll often spend hours talking between sessions on the days we're recording, we won't discuss specific musical ideas which we intend to play. We will discuss influences, specific pieces of classical music or jazz, composing and other influences outside of music, as well. We also often discuss some of the more esoteric aspects of music theory which we both find interesting. All of this probably feeds in to the music in some way.

In general, if I have any recording session coming up I will make sure I'm in shape. This involves regular practice routines which evolve over time. When I don't have any sessions coming up, I tend to do a couple of hours practice a day. Obviously, that increases a lot when I have a session coming up.

AAJ: It certainly sounds like you were in shape for your MoonJune debut! How did you and Leonardo (Pavkovic, of MoonJune Records) come to meet, and what led to your decision to release Proof... through his NYC label?

MW: I can't remember exactly now. It may have been after an interview in Innerviews that Anil Prasad suggested I get in tough with Leonardo, or maybe it was Leonardo who contacted me. At any rate, Leonardo mentioned that he was a fan of my playing, and we discussed the possibility of working together via email. Then I did a concert in New York City with Kevin Kastning and invited Leonardo, we went out to dinner afterward and it was at that point that we actually decided to work together on my next album.

Leonardo is a truly visionary record label owner who is presenting some of the very best jazz and progressive music being made. So, it was an honour when he asked me to be on the label. He is also is one of the most knowledgeable people about music I've ever met. It's quite staggering: he knows every significant album that's happened since the 60's—and probably even further back. Working with someone who has such a deep understanding of this type of music is fantastic. Leonardo and I talked quite a bit about the album before I recorded it and I found his input extremely helpful in the direction the album took. I felt he was there behind the project, at every stage, with useful insights and ideas, right up to the design of the album cover and beyond. It's been a really great experience working with him. Leonardo is a one of a kind and MoonJune stands like a beacon of quality on the musical landscape. So, I couldn't be happier about being on the label!

AAJ: From my perspective, Proof of Light is a landmark album—hailing the next evolutionary stage of electric guitar expression. Please pardon my enthusiasm, but given your radical approach to creating and manipulating tone, I don't believe this to be overstating matters.

Being a guitarist, myself, between repeated listenings of the CD and absorbing everything you've shared to this point, I believe you are redefining the instrument's potential—much in the same way as Jimi Hendrix and Allan Holdsworth did, when they opened the minds of fellow guitarists through their unique visions of expression on the electric guitar. Now that the album is out (and has been mastered for some time), I'm sure you have had ample time to listen to it, yourself ... is this a satisfying album for you? Are you pleased with the results?

MW: I really appreciate your kind words, John. I'm very pleased with the album; I think every track on it turned out well and achieved what I was after when I was writing the material. Of course, having Yaron and Asaf playing such great stuff helped a lot!

A lot of time and effort goes into the writing phase of an album for me; I always know that each album is a particular set of musical ideas I will only record once. The next album will always be different, I'll be writing about other things. As I've said before I often draw on real and imagined places, times and lives as inspiration when I compose. When I compose a set of pieces and record them, I know that this is the only time I'll visit these particular places with the music, so if the album works well and these impressions come through when I listen to the music, I'm really pleased.

AAJ: You mentioned earlier about another duo album with Kevin (Kastning) you'll be releasing, later this year ... are there any other projects in which you're currently involved, or in the process of planning? What do the immediate and foreseeable futures hold for Mark Wingfield?

Will there be a follow-up album with Yaron (Stavi) and Asaf (Sirkis)?

MW: I have various other projects happening at the moment.

I've been doing a lot of composing this year. I was asked to compose a piece for the renowned classical pianist Kathryn Stott. She regularly plays piano concertos with many of the world's greatest orchestras and has worked extensively with Yo-Yo Ma, so it was a real honour to compose a solo piano piece for someone of this stature.

At the moment, I am in the middle of recording another album with the amazing harpsichordist Jane Chapman, for which I also composed eleven pieces. Jane is another great classical musician who, as well as playing in classical settings, has also worked with some of the UK's best jazz players and some of the best-known modern classical composers. So, again, its great to be working with her.

I have started work with René von Grünig sketching out ideas for a new album. René is one of the most original composers and players I've had the pleasure to work with. His approach is unique and although he has influences like everyone does, he will often come up with an idea which doesn't sound like anything I've heard before. He is also fearless when composing in the sense that if it feel's right, he has no problem moving from a laid-back jazz feel, directly into an intense classical section. I love this willingness to have no boundaries and literally let the musical flow of the composing go wherever it needs to.

René is also someone who understands where I'm coming from when I talk about composing music inspired by real and imaginary times, places and lives as he also draws from those sorts things. So working with him is always inspiring.

I think it's very likely I'll do another album with Yaron and Asaf. In fact I have already started composing new pieces for an album with them in mind.

AAJ: That's fascinating, Mark: your being commissioned to compose a piano piece! Do you play piano?

MW: No, I don't play piano or any instrument other than guitar. However, you do need to have a good idea of what's possible on any instrument if you are going to compose anything adventurous. Its very easy to overstep the mark from challenging to impossible, so it's important to have a firm grasp on the practical limits of any instrument. Of course you can adjust these limits upwards if you're writing something for world-class players like Kathryn Stott or Jane Chapman. So knowing where those boundaries are has taken some study, but also I have been lucky enough to have worked with some great classical musicians over the years and I've learned a lot from that.

I do compose at the piano even though I'm not a player. Of course, I know all the chords and scales but I can't play and hold together a piece, or even part of a piece; I have no actual playing ability. But in some ways I find this an advantage. If I'm writing something and even with my non-existent piano abilities, it's sounding good, I know there is something strong there, musically. Whereas on the guitar, you can end up unintentionally disguising a weak idea by embellishing it with playing finesse. Also, there is something about the sound of the piano, the overtones, which I really like for composing, it seems to open out harmonic possibilities.

Having said that, I do compose on the guitar, as well. Most of the tracks on Proof of Light started on the guitar, then I wrote them into the computer. On the computer I worked more on the pieces using a keyboard, music notation and piano grid view. I tend to jump back and fourth between these, constantly. Then I brought them back onto the guitar again for the final stage. I find I think so differently when I'm composing on a keyboard vs the guitar that its great to jump between the two.

AAJ: I can see where it would be advantageous, especially if different is what you're after! How does your process of composing for someone else, on a different instrument—as in the case of Kathryn Stott—differ from writing your own material?

MW: There is a huge difference for me between writing a piece of classical music and writing jazz or other music which involves improvising musicians. With classical music, you can write in a tremendous amount of detail; you are of course writing every note which is played. You are writing the chords, melodies, rhythms, bass lines, the solos—everything. This is very demanding, but at the same time it's really rewarding because you can render exactly what's in your imagination into sound in every detail. Also, you can make things happen which could never happen in an improvised setting.

Composing for improvised music is a whole different game. When composing, you need to be as minimal as possible—leaving as much space as possible for the musicians to tell their own stories. But, at the same time (at least with the music I write), you need to find a way to create a feeling and atmosphere, even though you don't know exactly what everyone is going to play. Of course, the melodies and chords are written and there's a basic structure for the piece, but a big proportion of what people play is going to be improvised. So its a different sort of challenge. I think of it as a very distilled type of writing: you are trying to make the maximum amount happen with the least amount of notes. Every note really counts a lot, because you are writing so few of them.

AAJ: Thanks for sharing that perspective, Mark. You have a very unique way of looking at so many different facets of guitar, music and the creative process—and its numerous varied protocols. It's very fascinating to view the various respective intricacies of how you approach so many different things, but when I reflect back over the course of this interview I now see your work more clearly from the angle of 'the whole being the sum of its parts.'

Sir, I believe we have covered about everything we could have possibly have hoped to, prior to this interview commencing. (There was a pleasing structure, but we improvised well, also!) Is there anything we haven't touched on about which you are very passionate and would like to discuss?—otherwise, this seems like a nice place to stop ... at least, for now, anyway!

MW: Thanks for the offer, but I think I've said about everything, thanks to your excellent questions. It has been a real pleasure doing this interview with you. Thank you for all the thought and encouragement you've put into this. It really is hugely appreciated!

AAJ: I appreciate you taking the time and making the herculean effort to share such a wealth of fascinating, insightful information, Mark. It has been my great privilege to be involved in this interview, sir. As I have reread your responses and reflected back on all you've conveyed, I understand why it is that I have found your music so profoundly moving, in both a technical and emotional sense.

Thank you, so much, Mark. I know I speak for all of the many "MoonJunistas" scattered across the globe in wishing you the very best of success with the new album and your rising star!

MW: You're quite welcome, and a big 'Thanks!' to all those out there who have supported my work and shared so many kind words, and you AAJ readers for taking the time to read this.

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