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As Dizzy's World Turns

Michael Bourne By

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Master raconteur, award winning jazz broadcaster and Downbeat contributor, Michael Bourne recounts a series of remarkable stories about Dizzy Gillespie based on experiences that stretch over a couple of decades.

Embodying Bobop

I happened to be at home in St. Louis when Dizzy Gillespie was playing at this new jazz joint near the baseball park, called The Gourmet Rendezvous, owned by jazz DJ Spider Burks, so I went. I was still relatively new at Downbeat at that time. This is the early '70s. I started in 1969 and this must have been '72. I asked Dizzy if I could interview him and take him to lunch. He said yes, so I picked him up at the hotel and took him to this Italian restaurant in St. Louis called Kemoll's. It's where I used to take dates. It was my favorite restaurant in St. Louis. I just turned on the tape recorder and recorded everything we talked about. I remember asking him why the music was called bebop. Dizzy said it was because people couldn't remember the titles of the tunes. They would say "play that bebop tune" and Dizzy would ask "what tune was that?" And the person would scat "be ah ba doo ba de be bop!" He said that even the musicians could not remember the titles. Dizzy would call out "Max Is Making Wax" and they would look at him and say "which one is that?" And then Dizzy had to scat it.

Fat Cats at Lunch

We talked about how he had literally died and had been brought back. Dizzy said he had been "on the Grand Concourse, and there was Charlie Parker and Chano Pozo!" Then he was resuscitated. Dizzy talked about the evolution of jazz and said it was like the evolution of religion. He said, "if you think about religion, there is Moses, then there is Jesus and then there is Mohammad, and then there is Bahá'u'lláh (the prophet of the Baha'i religion)." He was a very devout Baha'i. He said it's the same as it is in jazz. On the trumpet, "there was Louis Armstrong, then there was Roy Eldridge, and then there was me, and then there was Miles Davis." Dizzy said how each prophet and each original voice came along. That was extraordinary! He said that he thought Fats Navarro was meant to be the next great trumpet player, but he died young.

It was just a wonderful conversation. The twist about being at this wonderful Italian restaurant, one of the best in St. Louis—Dizzy ordered Beef Stroganoff! Why it was even on the menu, I don't know. I remember that mine was a pepperoni calzone. I just essentially edited everything we talked about and printed the Q&A in Downbeat. I called it "Fat Cats at Lunch."

Withdraws candidacy

Over the years, I would run into him and he would always say something or do something funny. One time I said something about him running for president and Dizzy said he can't do it anymore. He was officially pulling back from running for president in the future. Because it used to be at Monterey and all those jazz festivals, people would walk around with Dizzy for president T-shirts. There were even pictures of him in a top hat and all that. He said no, because Baha'i's are not supposed to hold public office. He got out the book of Bahá'u'lláh and he read the passages about that to me. I wrote it up as if it was an AP story—like a newswires story "Candidate Announces Withdrawing from..." It was printed in Downbeat very seriously. Nat Hentoff in his annual summation of what happened in jazz that year for Playboy—he used to write one every year for Playboy when they used to write about jazz. He opened the piece with "what an extraordinary moment it is" and a downturn that Dizzy was no longer running. He took it very seriously and played it that way just as I did. I thought that was a hoot.

Trumpet Bath

Another time, Dizzy was playing in Bloomington, Indiana. I used to live in Bloomington for several years. So we are talking before he played a gig at a pub called The Bluebird, and he handed me the trumpet—THE TRUMPET with the upturned bell. He said, "run some warm water through this"—and I replied "what?" He countered with, "run some warm water through this." I'm walking through the crowd holding the "Holy Grail" and not knowing what he's talking about. I see a trumpet playing friend of mine, David Miller, and I said, "he wants me to run water through this!" My friend looked at it and knew that was Dizzy's trumpet—THE TRUMPET—and he just about fell on his knees. Finally, I got to behind the bar where there was a sink and I still didn't know what he meant. Dizzy walked up behind me and says "here like this" and he stuck the bell under the faucet and ran water through the trumpet. I never knew anybody did that. That was amazing. I will never forget that moment, walking through the crowd as if holding the "Ark of the Covenant."

The blues with Muddy


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