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A Fireside Chat with Marion Brown

AAJ Staff By

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I played better than I had ever played before because he spun a carpet under me. All I had to do was ride it. —Marion Brown on Philly Joe Jones
In recent years, I had heard that Marion Brown was ill. Such vague details were of grave concern since I had first experienced his virtuoso playing on John Coltrane's wicked Ascension opus. It was only a matter of time before Three for Shepp was in my collection and then came Porto Nova, Reed 'n Vibes, and Live in Japan. Through Roadshow friend, Gunter Hampel, I learned of Brown's trials and they are many in number. Brown has undergone brain surgery, eye surgery, has had all of his teeth extracted, and a portion of his leg has been amputated and he has had to learn to walk with a prosthetic. For such a gentle soul, it is too much for me to bear. From an undisclosed nursing home in New York, we spoke of his life, his love, his music, as always, unedited and in his own words.

All About Jazz: Let's start from the beginning.

Marion Brown: It was because of my mother. My mother liked music and I loved her a lot and she brought me to the attention of music and it stuck, so I started taking lessons. The saxophone was my first instrument because of Charlie Parker. When I heard him, it was the greatest saxophonist I had ever heard before. He decimated me. I liked his technique and his ideas. He had stupendous technique and brilliant ideas. That showed me that he's a very intelligent man.

AAJ: You attended both Clark College and Howard University, an impressive amount of education, which at the time was unheard of for a black man.

MB: Yeah, right, Fred. And then I played in the army band for three years. It was very good experience. That's how I got my chops and learned to be able to rely on myself. I played the alto, the clarinet and the baritone saxophone.

AAJ: What prompted the move to New York?

MB: My mother wanted a better life for herself and a better life for me, so she came to New York to find it.

AAJ: Sounds like she was a single mother.

MB: Yes, she was. My mother was my total inspiration. Everything I did, I did it for her.

AAJ: How did you get involved with the Sixties free jazz whirlwind?

MB: After I left Howard University and came to New York City and met Archie Shepp and Ornette Coleman. I met Archie Shepp in 1962. He lived in a building where I had a friend live, Leroy Jones. And one time I was visiting Leroy Jones and on the way downstairs, I heard Archie Shepp in his studio practicing, so I went in. I had a soprano recorder in my pocket and I played some soprano sonatas for Archie and he liked my playing so well, he offered me the opportunity to play with him. But I didn't have a saxophone, so Ornette Coleman let me use his white plastic saxophone to get started.

AAJ: Nice of Ornette to come through and the infamous white plastic saxophone no less.

MB: Well, I met Ornette through WBAI FM. I did some jazz programs on there substituting for A.B. Spellman and Ornette heard me and he liked what I did and he wanted to meet me.

AAJ: At the time, Ornette was creating quite a firestorm in New York. What was your impression of Ornette?

MB: Ornette Coleman is the same as Charlie Parker, but he did it a different, the opposite way. Charlie Parker did everything that he did based on knowing harmony and chords. Ornette Coleman did everything he did based on knowing how to reach inside of himself and create music intuitively.

AAJ: Whose approach did you find more appealing?

MB: I found Ornette more appealing. I thought it was better to play what you felt naturally than to have a lot of systems based on chords and things.

AAJ: Being without a saxophone initially, when were you able to purchase your own horn?

MB: As soon as I started working with Archie, I earned enough money to buy my own, so I gave Ornette his horn back.

AAJ: You performed on John Coltrane's Ascension. How did you find yourself on the session?

MB: Well, I met Coltrane through Archie Shepp. Archie told him about my music and he started to listen to it and he liked it. And then, several times, he would come to hear me play and he liked that. So when he decided to do "Ascension," I fit the picture of somebody that he wanted in it. Coltrane was a very brilliant man and a beautiful person. He was one of a kind. His sound and technique, those things he used to play called "sheets of sound," that and his feeling of a love for God. His spirituality became the most important part of his music because he was thankful to God for all the things that God had given him to make him who he was.

AAJ: During much of the Sixties, American musicians were seeking sanctuary and employment in Europe. You were one of them.

MB: The climate was good as far as people liking the music, but it was impossible to make enough money to meet the cost of living. The climate was the same in Europe. People liked music and it was possible to get enough gigs to survive.

AAJ: You recorded two sessions for the ESP label, Marion Brown Quartet and Why Not?, how did you end up recording for the now defunct label?

MB: I found out where their office was and I started going by there and talking to them. So they basically became interested in seeing what I had and when he heard me, he liked me and so he gave me an opportunity to record. As a matter of fact, Fred, that very first album that I made for ESP is being reissued next month.

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