Ryan Oliver: Zigging With A Jazz Maestro, His Secrets and Wisdom

Tenor saxophonist Ryan Oliver of Canada's The Cookers Quintet, is no stranger to the art of touring the globe. For years he was an integral part of The Shuffle Demons, an adored Toronto jazz saxophone group known for their mid-'80s hit single, "Spadina Bus," written in humorous reference to the Toronto Transit Commission's Spadina Avenue bus that served a vibrant and unique neighbourhood in downtown Toronto, and other treasures such as "Out of My House, Roach," and the comedic "Cheese on Bread." "Spadina Bus" became the best-selling independent release single in Canadian music history in 1986, and Streetniks was nominated for Best Jazz Album at the JUNO Awards of 1987.

The Canadian hipsters are still known to sport flashy and kaleidoscopic wardrobes that would have inspired even some of the greats within jazz fashion like Miles Davis, or the eclectic Sun Ra. The quintet currently features Richard Underhill, alto and baritone saxophone, vocals); Kelly Jefferson, tenor saxophone, vocals; Matt Lagan, tenor saxophone, vocals, (formerly Ryan Oliver); Mike Downes, acoustic bass, vocals; and Stich Wynston, drums and vocals. The band has had personnel changes over the years, and are solidly Canadian jazz favourites. They even accomplished a successful attempt at a world record for the largest number of people playing saxophone simultaneously during a tour in 2004. The official Guinness Book of Records count was at 900 participants, all playing the theme from Hockey Night in Canada.

Oliver has moved back to Victoria, British Columbia on the southern tip of Vancouver Island, way-out-west in Canada, and joined jazz writer-guitarist Kerilie McDowall for a chat.

All About Jazz: It is a pleasure to hear your thoughts today. You have enjoyed a formidable jazz career. Speak about your formative musical years from that earlier period. Where did it start?

Ryan Oliver: I grew up in Williams Lake in the interior of BC. I got interested in playing saxophone after hearing a John Coltrane recording. Luckily, there was a great teacher who happened to be in town as his wife worked at the local mine. His name is Michael Butterfield. He lives in Nanaimo now. He is a great tenor player and teacher. He had me listening to and transcribing Dexter Gordon solos, and playing in his blues band, the Hot Buttered Blues. We played all kinds of blues and R&B music, and he would even bring up Canadian saxophone giants Ross Taggart, who was a former student of Michael's, and Campbell Ryga from Vancouver to play with the band. Those formative experiences were really inspiring. Learning to blow on the blues and play all those horn lines was a pretty deep experience for me at 16 years old and I think it really set the tone for how I would learn to play. After that, I attended Malaspina College in Nanaimo for a couple of years, studying with Pat Coleman, before moving over to Amsterdam and eventually to Toronto.

AAJ: You are now residing once again in BC, but what was it like as a Canadian jazz superstar performing and touring globally with Toronto's The Shuffle Demons?

RO: It was definitely an incredible experience in my career, and I feel very thankful to have had it. I spent the better part of 15 years touring around the world with The Shuffle Demons. As a kid, I had their tapes and used to play along with some of their tunes so it was definitely a full-circle moment when I got called for the first time to tour with them. The first tour we did was in India on Christmas Eve about 15 or 20 years ago.

I was friends with some of the members just from hanging around the Toronto scene. I'd actually met saxophonist Perry White when I lived in Amsterdam and he was over there quite a bit. The Shuffle Demons gave me a chance to see the world while playing saxophone. I was also really lucky to share the stage with some of my best friends and favorite saxophonists.

Hearing, Rich Underhill and Perry White and of course, George Koller and Stich Wynston every night on the road was an inspiring experience, to say the least. We played all over the world over those years and that is a pretty priceless experience.

AAJ: Your band, The Cookers Quintet, has made some fun albums that are all about elevating and transcendent sizzling energy. What is your philosophy towards the practice and fine art of music?

RO: We've made four records for a great label in Toronto called Do Right! Music. The Cookers [Quintet] allows me to explore some of the hard bop music that I love and always love listening to. We put the band together 10 years ago or so at a dive bar in Toronto so that we could play every week.

We started out playing music by Art Blakey and Horace Silver, Hank Mobley, and all that, and then eventually decided to start writing our tunes on tunes in that vein so we could record and make a kind of a statement on, that the music wasn't just derivative.

I guess if I had to quantify how The Cookers [Quintet] fit into my musical view, it would be that it is important to strive for some level of originality. Not to say it can't be rooted in the jazz tradition, because that's part of the idea of it all. But searching for your own individual voice is an important aspect of the art.

AAJ: Do you have projects on the pandemic back burner or on the bucket list that you have been shaping? Didn't you just record an album or two?

RO: I've always got projects kicking around in my head. Some might be as simple as some original music of the writing for sax trio with bass and drums, all the way up to larger scale projects.

I've been lucky to record numerous albums over the last few years. I did a project featuring 12 strings with a jazz quartet for The Cellar Live label, a recent The Cookers record, and some great sidemen projects. One with Reg Schwager Senza Resa that Nanaimo jazz aficionado extraordinaire producer Luigi Porretta [Quadwrangle Music owner] produced, and another one as a sideman on Joe Coughlin's latest CD, exploring some of the repertoire by John Coltrane and Johnny Hartman.

I recently completed a live record at Frankie's in Vancouver. It will be released on Do Right! Records in 2024 and features one of the best rhythm sections on the planet. Brian Dickinson is playing piano, Neil Swainson on bass, Terry Clarke on drums and we had Dee Daniels as a guest vocalist for a few tracks. I think that the music turned out brilliantly and I'm looking forward to releasing the album next year.

AAJ: How did you cope with the pandemic's Canadian music industry and performance events shutdown from 2020-2022? Did it affect you negatively, and how did you use that time?

RO: The pandemic definitely put a hold on some things and I think we're still feeling the effects of it in the music industry. I was probably the same as everyone else, just kind of hanging there doing some digital things as they came up and spending my time that way. It coincided with the birth of my daughter. So I was definitely busy with life!

I am glad to see things coming back though, and I am always appreciative of the hard-working people in the industry who put concerts on, run the jazz clubs, and all the rest of it.

AAJ: You are into the art of composition, as well as interpretation. What is your process when composing,? How do you get into the right headspace for it, and how do you like to work?

RO: It's a fine balance that feeds itself in some ways. I am a believer in the importance of learning repertoire from the jazz tradition. Learning tunes with cool harmonic movements and melodies can really help you as a composer. I do try to write original music. Often that is fueled by a project coming up like a record date or a gig with certain players that I would like to have original music for.

Original compositions give you a blank canvas that takes you out of this mode of thinking, 'What would Hank Mobley play here?' Or, 'How did Coltrane do this?' When you have your own tunes, you kind of have to find your own voice when you are improvising on them.

My composition process varies. Usually I come up with things from the saxophone directly, and then fill in the blanks at the piano, but from tune to tune you never know how it's going to go. I've been lucky to record a lot of my compositions over the years and played them on the road with different bands. I've also had some great experiences playing with real masters of the music and being forced to kind of step up to the plate and play my own tunes with them. It creates a real yardstick for your writing and builds your confidence in that.

AAJ: Are you fascinated with anything in particular? What are your fave to-do's, and are they music-related?

RO: There are a lot of things that fill my time from my life as a parent of a little kid now, outdoor activities, pursuits like yoga, reading, cooking, etc. Your life is your art in some ways, so I definitely enjoy things outside of music.

AAJ: What have some of your most memorable career highlights been as a bandleader or side player?

RO: I've been lucky to have had a lot of great experiences as a musician. The live recording I just did at Frankie's with some of the top cats out of Toronto was a definite highlight. Sharing the stage with masters of the music is always an edifying experience. I got to hang out with some of the jazz greats like Victor Lewis during my time in New York. This was also a very rewarding experience, and I feel honored to share the stage with Victor and have him as part of my musical world.

Of course, all those years with The Shuffle Demons were also great. Not to overstate it, but any opportunity I have to put the horn to my face these days and make music with people is special and fun.

AAJ: What are the most challenging aspects of tenor saxophone performance for you?

RO: Well, after all these years, I'm still practicing the tenor saxophone, and trying to figure things out on it, improve my tone, and really find ways to express myself with the instrument.

At this point, I guess the things I'm concerned with go beyond technique, although I'm always working on that as well. The tenor saxophone is a pretty incredible instrument with such a rich, lineage and history to it. I feel like no matter how much you can do, there's always more to be done, and there are so many players past and present that do so much with the horn. It's hard not to remain inspired.

AAJ: Given that you have mastery over your instrument, is music a love-hate relationship, or one of finding balance and new frontiers?

RO: I've had times in my life where I have definitely had moments wondering what I'm doing in the music business. Probably most musicians have. Overall though, I think that music has given me a real opportunity to see the world and find my place in it. The saxophone and the music business, in general, will always pose challenges that need to be figured out.

AAJ: The upcoming performance at Nanaimo's Simonholt, is a tribute to the great John Coltrane. What are some examples on the playlist for the evening, and what started you off honoring Coltrane yearly?

RO: John Coltrane is the reason I picked up the saxophone in the first place. I grew up in Williams Lake and had read the Malcolm X biography, seen the Spike Lee movie, and bought the soundtrack. "Alabama'" was a tune by Coltrane on that soundtrack, and when I heard it, I knew I loved it, not knowing anything about John Coltrane, except wondering why the name of a band would just be some guy's name.

Haha. The more I explored the Coltranes' world the more I got into the saxophone in jazz. John Coltrane will always be the main figure in my musical world. I started doing a tribute on his birthday when I moved to Vancouver Island just because I thought it would be a cool way to honor him. This is our seventh year and we usually pack the clubs. We play for his birthday weekend. I try to cover different areas of his career and balance out what we play. We'll likely play some repertoire from his Ballads (Impulse!, 1963) record, some of the A Love Supreme suite, or maybe all of it, depending. It's a chance to come to hear some timeless music performed by a really good band and keep the Coltrane spirit alive.

AAJ: Where can fans purchase your recordings and catch up with your latest news?

RO: On my website or by catching me live.

AAJ: Drop the last thoughts of wisdom that you would like to add to young and up-and-coming musicians.

RO: Great question. There is plenty of advice regarding getting your craft together, trying to put a career together in music, and all of those things and I am always happy to share my perspective on that with younger musicians. For this answer, though, it might be nice to touch on a topic that I think gets swept under the rug a lot.

The jazz education machine that is constantly filling university programs with students and pushing them to get master's and doctoral degrees in the hopes of teaching at a university is something that I'm a little critical of.

I think an understated thing in this music is feeling that it's OK to do something else if that's how your life is looking and that's what you feel. I feel like young musicians kind of get pushed in this way that if you're not fully dedicated to playing and lucky enough to score a university teaching job to find a career then you end up getting made to feel that you have somehow failed. If I get to know younger musicians well enough as people studying with me or asking questions, I try to impart that to them.

Life is long and there are so many cool things out there that might inspire you. It's not a failure to decide whether you want to do music part-time or have it as part of your life while balancing with other things. It's a tough road to put together a career as a professional musician, and there are points in your life where it may not make as much sense for you financially or otherwise.

I think this kind of gets glossed over as they go through their university educations. I think music students should also put thought into the fact that, with thousands of people graduating from these programs all the time. They need to look at the job landscape and consider that the idea of becoming a university professor (which seems to be the only career that is viewed as one that "fits" with being a professional musician) may not be realistic.

One year I adjudicated for the Fraser McPherson Scholarship, which I had won as a young musician, I was going through probably 50 or so saxophone audition tapes and essays. Most of them said that their goal in music was to become a professional saxophonist and teach at a university. All I could think was there are probably thousands of players out there hoping for this to become their job, and meanwhile, there may be one full-time position that comes up every year. There was a time in this music when the musicians and players were not teaching. Now it seems like that's getting more and more rare.

Just an interesting landscape and one that I feel like young musicians should think about a little bit.

Sometimes having an original idea or game plan can be a really good thing. Zig, when everyone else is zagging, so to speak.

In my own way, that's what I did when I moved back to Vancouver Island. I knew it would mean a change in my career arc, but I was looking to have a family and a bit more of a serene life. And living in a spot that was closer to how I grew up and the things that I was looking for in my life outside of music.

AAJ: There has been a great upheaval in recent years globally. As a musician who has traveled extensively, what is your positive take-home message to others to wrap up here?

RO: I have been lucky enough to travel all around the world through music. I think when you travel and see the world, it really hits home in a visceral way that people are all the same. Music is a universal language, so it is a cool way to travel around the world and interact with new cultures. I've met so many cool people all over the world and had so many new experiences playing music for them, and of course, playing music with them as well. It creates an unforgettable perspective that you take with you for the rest of your life.

A final thought. As we move further from the golden age of this music, we are losing more and more of the true giants of the music. Wayne Shorter and Pharoah Sanders' recent passing made me reflect on a few things; when I think of artists at the level of Wayne Shorter and Pharaoh Sanders, I feel like they exemplify artistry of the highest level, mixed with real mystery and soulfulness. They are a product of the golden age of jazz music. I feel like they played music in a way that just doesn't happen in the same way anymore.

I hope everyone, including myself, really considers what these artists brought to the table. How far beyond just technique or ability it goes.

Sometimes we get lost in the nuts and bolts of music. Trying to play with top-level, technical perfection, mastering all meters and scales, and all that information that is so readily available and taught in the universities now.

Musicians like Wayne Shorter and Pharaoh possess something that just can't be taught. I've had the opportunity to hear both of them live and will never forget sitting in front of those saxophone sounds!

We all strive to continue that quest toward finding ways to express the unknown!

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