Dave Liebman and Michael Kaplan: How Does the Brain Make All that Jazz?

Dave Liebman and Michael Kaplan: How Does the Brain Make All that Jazz?
Victor L. Schermer By

Sign in to view read count
With recent advances in neuroscience, the relationship between music and the brain has become the subject of new research and generated a great deal of public interest. Best sellers like Oliver Sacks' Musicophilia (Knopf, 2007) and Daniel Levitin's This Is Your Brain On Music (Dutton Penguin, 2006) have brought the attention of a wider public to the mysterious ways in which the billions of neurons (nerve cells) in our brain hear, process, and produce sounds that are meaningful and even memorable. Music accompanies us all our lives. It can be exciting, disturbing, soothing, comforting, joyful, sad, and even therapeutic. Music plays a significant role in many of the rituals, ceremonies, and rites of passage in all cultures. How in the world are a bunch of nerve cells supposed to do all that?

And what about jazz in particular? Improvised music challenges the brain's ability to multi-task in rapid succession. Recently, neuroscientists have become interested in the brain's capability for jazz improvising. For example, they have begun to study brain activity when musicians play composed versus improvised passages. To explore this fascinating work from the standpoints of a musician and a neuroscientist, All About Jazz brought together NEA Jazz Master saxophonist and educator Dave Liebman and scientist Michael Kaplan, who teaches neuroscience in the Biological Basis of Behavior Program at the University of Pennsylvania, to discuss how the brain works to make improvised jazz happen. These two bright minds engaged in a fascinating dialogue about the skills required and how the brain acquires them, the neurobiological basis of musical talent and learning, the "telepathy" that occurs when jazz players co-improvise, and the cultural and developmental factors that make jazz a personal and communal experience, always coming back to the light that neuroscience can shed on the subject.

All About Jazz: How did each of you become interested in jazz as it relates to neuroscience? What made these two areas, which are usually not thought of in connection with one another, come together for you?

Dave Liebman: Even though I don't qualify as an expert on neuroscience, I'm very fascinated by it. It always amazes me that in improvising, especially with other musicians and even cross-culturally, we players can deal with the astounding amount of input and information involved in coordinating the notes of the scale, all the emotions and moods, distractions, and random thoughts that are there. How does the brain sort it out and put it all together into a creative musical moment? I'm very curious about what is going on in the mind and the brain when we do this incredible process called improvising. Of course, everyone improvises in life, having a conversation, responding in a driving situation. So, I always wonder, when you have a lot of input and things to be concerned about, how does the mechanism work?

AAJ: So you're interested in how spontaneity and creativity operates in the mind and brain. Mike, how did you become interested in applying neuroscience to music?

Michael Kaplan: Music is of great interest to neuroscience, because it's such a unique form of behavior. It's ubiquitous, it's found in all human cultures, and very, very ancient, and yet its origin and purpose remain unknown. It's not absolutely necessary for survival, so why is it so widespread? And jazz is especially interesting because of improvisation: the recombination of previously learned materials, but used in a very spontaneous way. It's a paradoxical kind of attention that you have to employ when you improvise, where you have to be aware of many things, but without getting bogged down in all that information. It's that mixture of control and "letting go."

DL: That may be true in the best of worlds, but for me there may be times when I'm playing when I'm on automatic pilot. The fingers are doing the walking, and at the same time in the heat of battle there may be a lot of anxiety, waiting around, fatigue, a lot of mundane things. Like I say to students, your fingers are way ahead of your brain. So it swings from total concentration to times when your mind is all over the place, but you're still performing!

AAJ: Sometimes it's as if the brain is doing something that your conscious self isn't aware of doing.

DL: Yes. My fingers are working, while I'm AWOL!

AAJ: It's like driving a car. You're thinking about your wife, your kids, the next exit on the highway, but hopefully you're still working the steering wheel and the brakes!

DL: Exactly!

The Tools of the Neuroscientists' Trade


comments powered by Disqus

  • The Sky
    The Sky
    Dave Liebman
    Turnaround: The Music of...
  • A Bright Place
    A Bright Place
    Dave Liebman Big Band
    Live/As Always
  • WTC
    Dave Liebman / Richie Beirach / Frankfurt Radio Bigband
    Quest for Freedom
  • Lost Horizon
    Lost Horizon
    Dave Liebman / Contact
    Five on One
  • Standoff
    Dave Liebman / Quest
CD/LP/Track Review
Jazz Raconteurs
CD/LP/Track Review
Live Reviews
Read more articles

More Articles

Read Aaron Parks: Rising To The Challenge Interview Aaron Parks: Rising To The Challenge
by R.J. DeLuke
Published: June 21, 2017
Read Generation Next: Four Voices From Seattle Interview Generation Next: Four Voices From Seattle
by Paul Rauch
Published: June 19, 2017
Read Miles Mosley Gets Down! Interview Miles Mosley Gets Down!
by Andrea Murgia
Published: June 16, 2017
Read Eri Yamamoto: The Poet’s Touch Interview Eri Yamamoto: The Poet’s Touch
by Jakob Baekgaard
Published: May 20, 2017
Read "Johnaye Kendrick: In The Deepest Way Possible" Interview Johnaye Kendrick: In The Deepest Way Possible
by Paul Rauch
Published: March 8, 2017
Read "Bobby Hutcherson: A Life In Jazz" Interview Bobby Hutcherson: A Life In Jazz
by AAJ Staff
Published: August 17, 2016
Read "Dominic Duval: Follow Your Melody" Interview Dominic Duval: Follow Your Melody
by Maxim Micheliov
Published: July 22, 2016

Join the staff. Writers Wanted!

Develop a column, write album reviews, cover live shows, or conduct interviews.