Bill Goodwin: Not Less Than Everything

AAJ: As a drummer, do you pay attention to chord progressions?

BG: Absolutely! That's how I can tell where I am.

Teaching and Mentoring Younger Musicians

AAJ: So, a couple more questions. You're career has been unbelievable. There's so much more we could cover, But, for now, could you share the guidance you would like to give to young, aspiring musicians who are exceptional players, composers, and so on, but have no idea about how to build a career and a life for themselves. I hear a lot about that today, about promising musicians who have recently graduated from a jazz department or conservatory, but they have no idea of how to live a life as a jazz musician.

BG: That's not the case, in my experience. I've been teaching jazz musicians at William Paterson University for over twenty years. The students there are motivated, connected, and are working gigs. I tell them not to turn down any opportunities. I didn't play only jazz. I became a professional musician. Don't turn down work. You can learn something from any gig. And if you don't like it, you don't have to do it more than once. And in addition, cultivate your network, meet people. Don't wish you were older so you could've played with Miles. Ask yourself, who is playing now that you like. Go hear live the people you really like. If you especially like them, learn their music. And introduce yourself to them. Tell them you've learned their music. "Here's my card if you ever need a drummer" or whatever instrument you play. People may be amused by it, or maybe they'll appreciate the offer. You might or might not get hired by them. But if you don't do it, there's no possibility. It's the people thing. You've introduced yourself, given them your card, so they know who you are.

AAJ: And the people thing is what makes the music itself happen.

BG: Exactly!

AAJ: Some of the jazz educators tell me their students are obsessed with the internet sources. They listen to everything on their computer, they devote themselves to their studies, and they become really skilled players. But the real world is something they're unfamiliar with!

BG: They're not going to become skilled players unless they narrow their focus sometimes and get gigs. Jazz programs are a good chance to be exposed to many things. At Patterson, we have ensembles, private instruction, lots of chances to learn the music and their instrument. And it's all geared towards the outcome, which would be successful performance. But sometimes I tell them, somewhat sarcastically I admit, "So you got a degree. What are you going to do with it? Go show it to them at the Vanguard?" Instead you should get to know the doorman at the Vanguard, as well as all the musicians on the bandstand. Unless you plan to teach and be an educator, which is fine. I teach out of long experience, not books and videos. I try to explain why we like the drummers and musicians we like. And how all of it comes together, what your obligations are. I try to explain the rules and the leeway that's available to them within the rules. And I show them that some influences might be more relevant than others in certain situations. There was a long time I didn't play my own thing, because I didn't sound that good. But when I played like Roy Haynes, I sounded a lot better.

AAJ: Over the years, did you find a style you could call your own?

BG: I had five main guys who I would imitate, and I always sounded better that way. Eventually all that coalesced into what you might say became a subtext in my playing.

AAJ: Did you ever develop your own "voice"?

BG: Max Roach said, when someone was complimenting him on his innovative approach to the drums, "Thank you very much, but I'm just standing on the shoulders of those who came before me." And, man, that's the truth! I stand on his shoulders among others, and what a great experience it was getting into his playing. He was a marvelous example of all that can be done with something you hit with a stick.

AAJ: Max Roach did the whole thing. He innovated new sounds and techniques, and he did so much to bring the younger players up. Diane Monroe and Odean Pope from Philly come to mind. And with a genius like Monk, his playing transformed what Monk was doing to an even higher plane of expression.

BG: He and a lot of us were very involved in the struggles of the 1960s. I was talking about Max with Stan Levey. They had been roommates in the 1950s. Stan wound up on that famous trip to LA with Bird and Diz, because Max couldn't make it. Stan knew Max, and he said, "Max is like a deep well. And any of us can go to that well and take something out of it anytime."

AAJ: Wow!!! What a wonderful thing to say!!!

BG: And it's true.

Post-Interview Chat: Poconos, Bill Charlap, COTA, Etc.

AAJ: That was a really great interview.

BG: There's so much. I'm working on my memoirs, and I keep circling back, remembering something I forgot to put in at a certain point. And some things I won't tell! (laughs)

AAJ: I really enjoyed talking with you. I wish I knew you well before this. It's an honor to know you.

BG: Thank you, man. It's my pleasure.

AAJ: I love the Poconos. One of my friends lives in Tobyhanna.

BG: I know Tobyhanna. That's northwest of us. I'm currently living in Delaware Water Gap, near the Deerhead Inn.

AAJ: I meant to ask you what your involvement was with COTA, the terrific music and arts festival in Water Gap?

BG: I was the fly on the wall when the three guys who founded it came up with the idea for it. It was the local restauranteur, Ed Joubert, the trombonist Rick Chamberlain, and Phil Woods. I was standing at the Deerhead bar, and they turned to me and said, "We're talking about putting on our own festival here in the Gap. Whaddya think, Bill?" I said, "It sounds like a great idea," and I had another beer. And a year later we did the first one. It's been forty years since we started. For many years, I was the scheduling director of COTA, then I took a break, and then I did it again. I'm also a member of the Board of Directors.

AAJ: It's a wonderful festival.

BG: It's like a gathering of neighbors.

AAJ: It really feels like that, and yet they have some of the most incredible musicians. And people come from way beyond the Poconos to hear it. I especially remember one year sitting on the hill with a picnic lunch and hearing trumpeter Brian Lynch with Phil Woods. It was one of the best sets I ever heard.

BG: Brian was with the Phil Woods group for about twenty-three years. For fifteen years it was Phil and Brian with Bill Charlap on piano. Bill was an integral part of our quintet. He was with us from 1994 to about 2009, after which he would be a sub for the regular pianist. Bill's career really took off, and then we had Bill Mays most of the time.

AAJ: When I think of Bill Charlap, he's an astounding pianist, but I feel he has such a distinct style, not someone who could blend with a guy like Phil Woods.

BG: Well maybe his unique approach is why he is so good and so in demand. He knows the American Songbook inside out. He knows everything about American popular music. He's co-director of the program I teach in at William Paterson. If you're interested in Charlap with the Phil Woods Quintet, check out Miles High (Concord, 1996) and American Songbook Volume 1 (Kind of Blue, 2006). He fit in very well.

AAJ: Wow, there's so much I don't know about! BG: That's the fun of it, right?

AAJ: Einstein said that as the circumference of the circle around what we know gets bigger and bigger, our awareness of what we don't know expands too. That's what jazz musicians love, they just go with the flow and expand from the known into the unknown.

BG: Nature abhors a vacuum. I think the audience is important in that expansion. I include the audience in my mind as I'm playing. I don't really separate the music from the listener.

AAJ: That audience involvement is often what makes for a great concert.

BG: By the way, I just made a record with double drums with Billy Hart, that will be released after the first of the year.

AAJ: I love Billy Hart. An album with two world class drummers. Gotta get that one.

BG: It's got two drums, as well as bassist Ben Street and George Garzone on tenor sax. It's going to be on VectorDisc.

Comments