: I'd like to return to an earlier comment you made about performing while inspired by your surroundings. Two other projects of yours follow that idea: Deep South with Dave Ledbetter, and Intone with James van Minnen. Both of them deeply explore aspects of South African styles. RS
: Regarding Deep South, I've known Dave for almost 20 years. He has probably taught me more about music than any other musician I know. He's an absolute giant in my world of exploring simple and beautiful melodies, understanding groove, and being challenged to the point where you need to deliver a certain standard of playing and have an integrity to the music. It's not about you, it's about the music. The first Deep South album was my debut tryout for recording anything. I had two microphones and I had just gotten some software and a decent sound card. Dave and I had been playing music a lot. We lived next door to each other and, whenever we could, we'd get together to jam. I realized that a lot of his music had never been put out there, he was getting close to 60, and I thought the last thing he'd done was with the Truly Fully Hey Shoo Wow Band 20 years ago.
So I thought, "Let's put this out. It's time!" I realized that Deep South was true to where he was, where he was living, and his feeling of music. He has a very distinctive sound and is a distinct writer. You can immediately hear it's him. It wasn't until the second album, Heartland
(2015), that we realized what the sound was about. The first record, A Waiting Land
(2013), was very much a layered thing: Dave and I played our parts as a duo and then we would involve Mark Fransman
and Darren English
and all the other people that played on the record.
With the second album, it's like having a guest from another country arrive in your environment. Only then do you realize where you're living, because you become the tour guide. You experience your environment in a new way. We went to Switzerland to record that second album with Bjorn Meyer
. He would often say, "Wow, that's such a new sound. Oh, this is such an interesting feeling I'm getting from this music." The more that resonated, the more we realized how uniquely South African the sound was. I also liked how naked that album was, how real it is. It was literally the three of us playing in one room. We didn't do anything else. Having a Swedish bassist interpreting Dave's composition in a very open approach was unique. Coming home and then launching it here with Marcus Wyatt
and Shaun Johannespeople loved the record. It's very close to home for a lot of people. AAJ
: You take on many interesting projects. With the project Intone
, it led you into a cave in the Eastern Cape to record lullabies and calming rhythmic patterns for a children's album! RS
: Thar was my percussionist friend James van Minnen's idea. When James phones, or if he wants to come round and talk about something specific, it's worth listening to because it's never anything that you've heard or done before. It is something unique. In this case, he said that a lot of his friends who were either about to give birth, recently had a child, or had toddlers or newborn babies in distress would go into a space whenever he played a frame drum, and be influenced by this vibration. It made them extremely calm and put them in a peaceful place. So we started exploring that idea. I think he wanted the concept to be like a meditation, but still musical enough to be something that you could listen to.
Going into a natural space like a cave to record, as a metaphor for being the womb of the earth, was a totally wacky concept for me, and I said, "Definitely, we've got to do it." Listening to that recording, on headphones, you can hear all kinds of weird creatures and birds and the wind. We recorded for three days in that cave. We set up all the gear, and of course it takes a long time in an environment where you were digging out areas to make something level with sand. There was an unimaginable amount of time to get all the gear from the car park down a hill, up a hill, to the cave.
So six-and-a-half hours later we were ready to feel like we had a good sound and then it got dark! We thought, "Shit, are we seriously going to pack all this up now and set it up again tomorrow morning?" It was funny, because we then asked the owner of the farm whether she knew someone who wouldn't mind being a security guard for the night so that we could just cover the gear with some blankets and leave it there. An hour later she came back and said she asked everyone on the farm and on the surrounding farms, and all the people said, "No way in hell would they go anywhere near that cave at night, because there's too many ghosts!" So we thought, "Well, there's security!"
That sparked another discussion with the people that had lived there for so long. There were some Khoisan paintings and bones that had been found in an excavation, which was being done by a group of Belgian archaeologists. They were finding things dating back 60,000 years. So it was a very unique space to be in. One day was very windy, another day incredibly foggy, very still and dense, no reverb at all. The last day was bright, sunny, and sweaty. So it was all three things that we could have had. It was very interesting. AAJ
: On that project, you also had singer and multi-instrumentalist Indwe joining and performing Xhosa music. How did she get involved? RS
: She was a choice by producer Jonny Blundell. He runs an amazing record company here called Rootspring Records. He always wanted to feature her on a recording and decided to introduce her to our concept. We had so many musical revelations during that recording in the cave with Indwe. We were quite spread out, with James on the left, me on the right, and Indwe in the center. It was probably a good seven meters [about seven-and-a-half yards] of distance. She would often start a rhythm on her mouth bow, James and I would look at each other from either end of the cave, and try to figure out the rhythm. Eventually, she would just indicate it by tapping a foot shaker. Both of us would just crack up because it then became so obvious. We had never thought of the groove in that particular way, or even understood the concept of that particular polyrhythmic idea. It was so amazing, and an immense learning experience in a couple of days. There's a video of it on YouTube.
Indwe brought her music and we collaborated with her on those tunes. Indwe is one of those people we were invited to just be in the moment with, to just collaborate with as best we could. I like that as well. It's a very interesting approach and it's absolutely honest. There's no hiding at all. There were moments where Jonny would just hold the space in such a delicate way and say, "Let's try one more, and everyone think of the color red." Eventually, we got to a space where Indwe would say, "We've already played it, I don't see why we should do it again. It's there, it's not going to get any better. It might be different, but it's not gonna' get any better." She was great. What an incredible musician.