Alvin Queen: The Move, The Groove and The Beat

AAJ: Horace then disbanded the quintet, and you went to George Benson's band. He's more known for smooth jazz, but at this time he was doing something different. What was the sound of this band? Lonnie Smith was also in the band. Do you find there's more freedom for a drummer in a group whose front line was organ/guitar, as opposed to one consisting of horns?

AQ: First I want to clarify that Horace didn't actually disband this group. What happened was Horace was taking his annual vacation every year for about 2½ months, then he'd call up the guys to start rehearsing so he could return to the road within the fourth month.

I needed a gig during this period, and I'd heard the drummer with George Benson was leaving. It's been such a long time now that I really can't remember how I got the gig, but Ronnie Cuber was there along with Lonnie Smith, and then after Lonnie left Charles Covington replaced him.

George was also singing back then, but he wasn't then known as a singer. He used to admire Ronnie Dyson and Little Jimmy Scott during our travels, hearing them whenever possible. On George's first album, he sang "The Other Side of Abbey Road, which I had the opportunity to perform with him on the Johnny Carson show.

There's another album which we did at his studio, with him singing, but which was never released. Every time I see him we always talk about this record.

People talk about smooth jazz, but back then, this word didn't even exist. It was more of a rhythm and blues-based commercial form of music to reach the marketing world.

I think the organ confines you more than any other instrument, because it's one person doing two jobs, playing the piano and also the bass line, whereas working with a pianist he'd definitely think differently from the bassist.

Favorite Organists

AAJ: You have the distinction of having played with most, if not all, of the modern masters of jazz organ. To the casual listener, organ is organ, but there is a multitude of stylistic differences. Did you have a particular favorite to play with?

AQ: Larry Young, I feel, was the John Coltrane of the organ, and you can hear this on some of the recordings with Tony William's Lifetime, and also his own record Unity (Blue Note, 1965).

I've worked with many different organ players, and they all had a different type of conception for the instrument. It was a pleasure to learn how to deal with this instrument. You must be mindful of the fact that in ghettos throughout the USA the most popular instrument when I came up was the Hammond organ—every club had one.

AAJ: At the age of twenty-one (in 1971), you first went to Europe with trumpeter Charles Tolliver. Before the opportunity arose, did you have any ambition to get there?

AQ: No, I never thought about going to Europe at all, but this opportunity came when Charles Tolliver proposed it.

I'll tell you about how I met Charles Tolliver. He'd casually worked and recorded with Horace Silver. I can remember one night I was working with Horace at the Club Baron in Harlem when Charles came by to check out my playing. I can remember very clearly because Billy Paul was the opening act for Horace, and this was when he had a hit with "Bluesette, and he had Sherman Ferguson on drums, from Philadelphia.

When I finally heard from Charles, I was no longer a member of Horace's band. I was, at this time, with the George Benson Trio. I left George's band to go to Europe with Charles Tolliver Music Incorporation, and I was the replacement for Jimmy Hopps.

The European Scene

AAJ: I constantly write about the difference in attitude towards jazz in Europe. Was it immediately apparent to you?

AQ: Yes, definitely. Young musicians had more of chance to say what they've been trying to say in America for years. The Europeans were always open to greater things, and they would definitely give you the support needed to stay on your feet to be successful. Most of the guys from America either came over and spent some time or remain to this day in Europe.

AAJ: You were with Charles Tolliver for only a few months. Were you mainly gigging in Europe at this time? There was an informal expatriate community of jazz musicians that included such heavy hitters as Dizzy Reece, Johnny Griffin, Donald Byrd and Larry Young, who used Quai de Chat Qui Pêche (in Paris) as a sort of home base. Did you have a chance to interact with this loose knit confederation at all?

AQ: Firstly, I'd like to inform you I was with Charles Tolliver much longer than six months. Our relationship was for at least a decade, on and off, and we're still the best of friends.

Charles helped me out a lot, and made me the person I am today, and I must confess that if it weren't for Charles Tolliver I wouldn't be in the position I've enjoyed for the last thirty years. This guy's supported me every step—and still would do if I asked.

The Chat Qui Pêche, the River Bop, The Living Room, there were many places that, as you mention, the expatriates were hanging out. You forgot to mention the Drugstore, which we called the Green Star, on Blvd. Saint German near the Lippo Restaurant. These were places where you would go to find out what was happening after arriving in Paris, and asking who was in town playing.

I first met Maurice Cullaz through Charles Tolliver and Stanley Cowell, then I was introduced to Kenny Clark, and "Klook [Clarke's nickname] and I became the best of friends. He also started turning me on to different gigs within the Paris area, and Slide Hampton and Art Taylor were also a part of this community of musicians.

AAJ: You once again answered the call, rejoining Horace Silver for a five year stint. This was the early 1970s. I think more is known about Horace during his 1960s Blue Note years. At this point, artistically, what was he up to? With this group, was it clearly "Horace Silver... and or was it a musical democracy?

AQ: At this moment of Horace's life he was working on different material, and I believe it was Silver 'n Brass (Blue Note, 1975), and Silver 'n Strings [{;ay the Music of the Spheres] (Blue Note, 1978), a series of albums.

You must keep in mind that Horace never recorded with his complete quintet during these years. He was using mostly the Blue Note musicians such as Mickey Roker and Bob Cranshaw. On record, he'd just started to use the musicians he traveled with after I left the band in 1975. Horace was always clearly Horace—he was simply not about musical democracy.

AAJ: From your return stint in Horace Silver's band you found yourself in Canada acting as house drummer at Rockhead's Paradise [in Montreal]. During the early to mid 1970s, it was a bleak time for jazz in general. Commercial considerations became part of the equation for most musicians at the time, with the only other alternative being self-imposed exile in Europe, which many did (Dexter Gordon, Johnny Griffin, Ben Webster, many more). Ultimately you too returned to Europe. When reading about this time, the amount of talent now living in exile is staggering. Did this make it harder to get steady gigs?

AQ: No, it didn't. In fact I left the Horace Silver Quintet and returned to Boston, where I lived for about four months, and then I received a call from a friend of mine telling me that a guy by the name of Eddie Davis, an organ player, was looking for a drummer. I managed to travel to Montreal to check this gig out, and when I arrived I found out what the gig was all about: playing Barry White's music, which was not my bag at all.

I managed to stay with Eddie Davis for about three weeks, and I met a guy there by the name of Billy Martin. He had a drummer with him that enjoyed this type of music, so they decided to switch drummers, which made things much better for me and I made more money. Billy Martin was playing more jazz, but we were working mostly at very exclusive supper clubs, so I managed to get myself an apartment on my own. I use to go by Rockhead's Paradise every night to sit in when I got off, because the gig I was doing didn't give you much of a chance to play.

This is when I met Nelson and Ivan Symonds and Nick, the bassist; also Sadik Hakim who used to work with Charlie Parker. They were all working downstairs and they would have the American rhythm and blues people come upstairs on the weekends. I started getting other offers to work with Milt Jackson and many others that came to town.

I decided to leave and return to Europe to do another tour with Charles Tolliver in 1977.

It was never hard for me to get gigs anywhere I lived, because the musicians knew I could play, so they were very happy to see me. Most of the time I'd show up and they would put me to work right away.

I went back to Europe because the Europeans were doing much more for me than any American was. I was born and raised in New York, but was never offered any major contract from the recording labels, and I saw other people coming from other states within the USA and they were well supported, so that's when I thought this is enough for me, and I left for Europe and built a whole new life.

AAJ: Was there a general overall mood among the expatriate musical community, happy to be there or resentful?

AQ: Mostly all the guys I ever met living in Europe were very happy to be there. If you were going to be resentful the attitude was that it would be better if you go home and do it there.

AAJ: It seems, in general, that the small European record companies enthusiastically recorded people not generally regarded as "leaders Stateside, yet these smaller labels have contributed to important discographies of artists whose work would otherwise have been buried by time. They also seem to offer a freer rein to artists with regards to repertoire. Many of these recordings are rewarding and well worth hunting down. Did you participate in more recordings while over in Europe?

AQ: Yes, I did participate in many recordings in Europe which are treasures to many American collectors today. I feel America doesn't support jazz the way the Japanese and Europeans do. I've done DVD recordings with Kenny Drew, Randy Brecker, Bob Berg, Clark Terry, Eddie Lockjaw Davis, Jay McShann, Carrie Smith, George Wein, Wild Bill Davis, just to name several, and many records.

Most documentaries that are made about jazz musicians use as source material European television dates from the past.

I feel that my work would definitely have been buried if I'd stayed in United States. The Europeans are getting ready to empty their vaults full of material that I did starting over thirty-five years ago, right up to now, so America will definitely hear about me loud and clear, and it's only the beginning.

AAJ: Did you find a marked difference in many aspects of recording in Europe as opposed to Stateside?

AQ: No I don't find a difference in recording anywhere. I think it's up to the individual musician to know what he's looking for, and to have the right people around to help him get it.

AAJ: In the late 1970s you moved to Switzerland, whereas a lot of artists were moving to Amsterdam and France. What was behind your choosing this country?

AQ: I had met a very nice young lady at the time and she was helping me get back on my feet after going through so much hell and stress trying to keep up with the American dream.

I decided to get married and to start a different life in Europe, which turned out to be very nice, and things are definitely looking good for me at the present time. I have studied photography with Oscar Peterson for the last 2½ years, I'm getting ready to start playing golf, and financially I'm not worried about anything, so I'm happy.

AAJ: There was throughout the 1970s an influx of rock influences to be found in jazz, both subtly and the more blatant fusion genre which emerged. Did you ever delve into the realm of fusion at all? Did fusion or what was going on stateside register at all with the tastes of European audiences?

AQ: You have to remember that whatever happens in America comes to Europe within ten or fifteen years, and this is what happened to Europe in the late '70s—the same things. I wasn't a part of this because I'd already made my mark within the jazz business over here.

There are a lot of musicians who are still thinking about moving to Europe, but it's hard to get over now because you have European musicians who can play and the business is a little different over here. I saw when all of this fusion stuff started, so I was never interested in being a part of this in the first place. I left America when jazz was at one of its artistic high points.

Nilva Records/Oscar Peterson/Current Line-Up

AAJ: In 1979 you joined another long tradition of musicians starting their own labels, naming your Nilva Records. Your roster of artists is impressive (John Hicks, Big John Patton, Junior Mance, Ray Drummond, James Spaulding and many others). How big a company is Nilva, and how "hands on were you in the company's operations? Where can jazz fans find these records now?

AQ: This was not the musicians' company, this was my own company which I had started here in Europe with the help of my wife. When I first returned to Europe I made so much money within the first two years I decided to do something with it, and this is how the company started.

I learned a lot from Charles Tolliver and his company Strata East, and I had the same ideal. I went after all the artists in the New York area that recording companies were not recording, and that's how I ended up with so many different musicians. They were all friends of mine who I'd worked with in the past.

I made over seventeen recordings for the label, but was never able to get worldwide distribution, so this, coupled with the worldwide changeover to the compact disc, made things very difficult. Many of these records have still yet to be converted.

I still have different copies available, and you can also find them at special LP collector's sites on the internet and in some specialty stores. I'm trying to work out a deal now, where you will definitely see them on the market again as CDs, within the next year or so.

AAJ: You joined Oscar Peterson's trio, but also became leader of your own group, Alvin Queen & The Organics. You seemed to have waited to front your own group. Did you find playing and touring different, participating as the leader?

AQ: No, I just thought after some thirty-five years it was time for me to do for other young musicians what was done for me. I spent 2½ years with Oscar Peterson at the request of my late friend Niels-Henning Orsted Pedersen, who also arranged for me be a part of the original Kenny Drew Sr. Trio.

Most of all the people I've worked with in the past are dead and gone, so I have to try to keep their legacy alive.

Niels and I used to have our own group together many years ago, and Oscar always loved the way Niels and I accompanied him during our performances. I don't think being a bandleader will be difficult, because I have a lot of respect for the musicians around me, and I realize that I couldn't make it without them.

You have to learn how to let them make you now. You did it, and now it's important to showcase them, so that you yourself will continue to live on. It's a chain.

AAJ: Did you aspire to a permanent roster or a revolving cast of musicians for your group? Is there a preference on your part for either way?

AQ: I feel there are certain people who understand me for what I'm trying to say musically, and they definitely know who they are when they're accompanying me. I feel I have the best front line now, with Jesse Davis and Terrell Stafford, really couldn't be any better, and I also have Pete Bernstein on guitar who really knows what he's doing and he's also such a nice person to work with.

I knew Mike LeDonne from a tour with Milt Jackson some time ago, but he was playing piano at the time, so I never knew that he could play organ. When I decided to put this group together for the recording, I said, "Who can I get? and someone mentioned Mike LeDonne. I said "Mike LeDonne is a piano player, so they said "Try listening to him on organ, so that's how that happened, and he really gave me what I needed.

Club Scene

AAJ: There seems to be a resurgence of desire for cities to have small jazz/supper clubs. Places like New York, L.A, San Francisco and even Toronto are making an effort to showcase local talent but also important but not as well-known names. In Europe the more well-known players seem to play the larger festivals and venues, I imagine it is to a certain extent a matter of financial logistics. For me though, jazz loses a little of its power the bigger the venue. I can enjoy McCoy Tyner at some enormous festival, but there is more enjoyment and a sense of communion in a smaller, intimate setting. Do you have a preference for venue size?

AQ: I like small jazz clubs where the musicians don't need all this electronic equipment like a PA system. Jazz was created in small clubs where the feeling was like being in someone's living room and you've invited your own guests who love the music.

The first they need to learn is that the original Birdland was a place in New York that employed people who knew something about the music, and knew all the musicians who'd be coming by, it was not about the money.

If the club wasn't filled up for the second set, they'd tell the customers to please stay and just pay for your drinks and enjoy yourself. Now, you go to a club and when a musician shows up to speak with one of their friends who're playing there, the staff doesn't know who you are and they don't want to know!

I only hope that they send the staff to school, to teach them about jazz musicians before they put them on the door, because if it wasn't for the musicians producing music, there wouldn't be any reason for people to go there—just think about that.

Current and Dream Projects

AAJ: What are you currently working on? Where can the fans keep track of your tour dates and releases?

AQ: I'm working on many things, because I'm not only a musician, but I'm working within the production world organizing things for different companies and people. I've learned to be independent, and not to depend on anyone for anything.

If there's something out there that I want, I'm going to get it. I really don't care about not knowing a language, or learning the currency of a country. Just remember, I came back to Europe on my own and rebuilt a whole new life which I wouldn't have done in America, but I had a greater opportunity in Europe, so I stayed.

I'm government supported here in Switzerland, so for the most part, anything I ask for is given to me. I'll also receive all kinds of retirement funds when I become old enough to get it, and I have the best insurance coverage in the world, so what more could I ask for?

AAJ: This is my one stock question, but one whose answers always intrigues me: Do you have any dream project you have yet to do and what is it?

AQ: My dream project is to give back to the world what has been given to me, and that is to perform the true and the real form of jazz music, which I've lived and breathed for the past fifty years of my life. I was there with the greatest and I definitely wouldn't let them down at this stage of my life.

Elvin Jones use to say to me all the time, "You were definitely fortunate to be there, to be able to see it with your own eyes. Now put it into action and live it.

Selected Discography

Alvin Queen, I Ain't Looking at You, (Enja Records, 2006
Alvin Queen/Lonnie Smith, Lenox and Seventh (Black and Blue, 2006)
Alvin Queen, Ashanti (Nilva Records. 2002)
Dusko Govkovich, Blues in the Gutter (Diskoton Records, 2002)
Alvin Queen/Jasper Thilo, This is Uncle Al (Music Mecca, 2001)
Alvin Queen, Hear Me Drummin' To Ya! (Jazzette, 2000)
Alvin Queen/Stepko Gut, Nishville (Moju, 1998)
Alvin Queen, I'm Back (Nilva Records, 1997)
George Coleman, At Yoshi's (Evidence Records, 1992)
Kenny Drew, Standard Request Live at Keystone Korner (Alfa Jazz, 1991)
Kenny Drew, Recollections (Alfa Jazz, 1989)
Pharoah Sanders, A Prayer Before Dawn (Evidence Records, 1987)
Niels Lan Doky, Here or There (Storyville Records, 1986)
Alvin Queen, Jamming Uptown (Nilva Records, 1986)
Alvin Queen, A Day In Holland (Sound Hills Records—8057, 1984)
Bill Saxton, Beneath the Surface (Nilva Records, 1984)
Ray Drummond, Susanita (Nilva Records, 1984)
Alvin Queen, Glidin' and Stridin' (Nilva Records, 1982)
Art Farmer, Round About Midnight (Jugton Records, 1981
Eddie Lockjaw Davis, Jaw's Blues (Enja Records. 1981)
Alvin Queen, In Europe (Nilva Records, 1980)
Charles Tolliver, Impact (Strata East, 1975)
Charles Tolliver, Live at the Loosdrecht Festival (Strata East, 1973)

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