Date:	11-Jan-1999 01:12:41
From:	MB- Gustie Swinger
	I think the fact is that the music has always been there (post 1930), and has always been great music. From the polished big bands that were at the beginning to the jump bands of today, the general public can really get into this music. Swing has sparked one of the most fun and exciting forms of social dance out there, and I think today's public finally got feed up with the nondescript gyrating to rap and rock that seemed to dominate the 80's and stagnate in the 90's.

 

Date:	15-Jan-1999 10:41:47
From:	Israel (must.swing@juno.com)
	This new "swing music" trend is becoming somewhat of an ironic issue in the jazz world and although I do not know exactly what has caused this "resurgence in swing," I hope that my comments provide some insight to this discussion. On one hand, many true jazz enthusiasts do not care for this new "swing movement" because it is not jazz (good luck on finding Cherry Poppin'Daddies or Squirrel Nut Zippers in the All Music Guide to Jazz)and yet it is mistaken for jazz by the majority of its audience and bypassers alike (you know its pretty sad when a person says "Squirrel Nut Zippers" instead of Duke Ellington or Charlie Parker when questioned about jazz). In general, this "swing" trend is feeding pop culture/society with false images of what the true feeling and purpose of jazz is and consequently providing an even more distorted definition of the true meaning of jazz to not only the american public but to the rest of the world. Therefore, we can thank this new trend for putting jazz in even a deeper predicament than what it already has been in for decades now. On the other hand, many of those of us jazz enthusiasts who criticize and put the swing/jump trend down must admit that, despite the distortions and injustices that this new trend is having on jazz, bands like the Squirrel Nut Zippers/Cherry Poppin' Daddies/Royal Crown Revue are more likely to introduce its listeners to jazz than Garth Brooks, Rolling Stones, Snoop-doggy-dog, or any other pop "artists" for that matter. So there is something good that is coming out of this "resurgence in swing" and the irony in this topic is evident. Although there are other detailed issues about this topic to be addressed I will spare you from my opinionated comments...

 

Date:	16-Jan-1999 18:30:15
From:	buddy
	Swing is not about music. Swing is about a "scene" a social scene and a dancing scene, and it is mostly about formulas and what clothes you wear. Most of the players and all of the leaders are on the rebound from hardcore punk. A jazz musician will never crash that circuit except as a sideman. It's kinda pathetic to see all these burnt out people in their 30s pretending to adopt the values of the older generation and making a campy joke about it. They don't believe in the music or anything, it's just a pose. It would be fun if it were a freer and more open thing for more people instead of a "scene", but that is not gonna happen.

 

Date:	17-Jan-1999 15:32:13
From:	Anna-Lisa (alskirby@earthlin.net)
	This whole "swing band" thing really pisses me off. It is a perfect example of how, yet again, white people have found a way to not only cash in on the music of black people, but act like they invented it. All of these bands like The Brian Setzer Orchestra, Big, Bad Voo Doo Daddy and Squirrel Nut Zippers are pathetic versions of the swing band era. They are filled with musicians that couldn't swing if there heads were in a noose, but yet and still, these are the musicians that always seem to benefit financially while the real players struggle to be heard and understood, not to menti

 

Date:	17-Jan-1999 15:34:22
From:	Anna-Lisa (alskirby@earthlin.net)
	This whole "swing band" thing really pisses me off. It is a perfect example of how, yet again, white people have found a way to not only cash in on the music of black people, but act like they invented it. All of these bands like The Brian Setzer Orchestra, Big, Bad Voo Doo Daddy and Squirrel Nut Zippers are pathetic versions of the swing band era. They are full of musicians that couldn't swing if there heads were in a noose, and yet, these are the musicians that always seem to benefit financially while the real players struggle to be heard and understood, not to menti

 

Date:	20-Jan-1999 18:12:36
From:	Jason Haynes (JH17546@wcu.edu)
	Being an avid collector of the wonderful 78 rpm discs on which classic Jazz resides, I was overjoyed as I went through high school the past four years and witnessed the resurgence. I was ecstatic as I saw the opinions of Jazz change. The new groups climbing the pop charts made my fellow non-Jazz loving classmates unafraid to mention that they liked Jazz. Students who looked at me funny when I told them about my taste in music my Freshman year looked at me again my Senior year and said "Hey man, that music you listen to is pretty cool!" The new groups presented the younger audience a "hepped-up" new sound of swing with which they could identify. The new groups (Cherry Poppin' Daddies, Zippers, Royal Crown Revue, etc.) knew that the younger audience would crave the new sound of swing and they would therefore take a visit to the local music store and purchase their new CD's. All I can say is "It's about time!" I truly hope the resurgence thrives, never again fading into obscurity gathering dust on shelves like 78's used to.

 

Date:	20-Jan-1999 20:50:39
From:	john M. (x)
	sirs, whats this uproar about neo-swing all about ??? after the record companies have about lost everything on the jazz market with the exception of re-issues; and here comes a breath of fresh air from the neo-swingsters; and and and they try to compare it to the most successful era of jazz history. we should all get down on our knees and be thankfull that there is such a possibility. jazz cannot exist without a lotta people being intrested in it...it takes the un-imformed....the informed.....and the experts to be in on a jazz movement. Swing is a movement.. Brian Selzer can swing and i can garantee if anyone spent one whole night listening to this group; they might change their minds... back out of the original swing era most of our great jazz combo's evolved. the bop movement didn't kill the swing era; but it did lose a whole lot of people who just couldn't relate to that funny music. later they agreed that Diz and Bird and Bud and Charlie and Sonny and all the rest were great musicians. without a swing background it just may not have happened. give these kids a chance. respectfully, John M. (loving jazz for over 50 years)

 

Date:	05-Feb-1999 11:35:23
From:	Paul Abella (Pabella3@aol.com)
	Anna-Lisa: why is everything a race issue? The only problem with the Nouveau-swing phenomena as I see it is the jazz listeners who will get all snooty about it instead of remembering one thing: THIS ISN'T BE-BOP!!! You're right, it's not on the level of Bird or Diz or even Illinois Jacquet. What it is, though, is fun. They don't want to be compared to the serious big bands of Ellington or Jones/Lewis, they want to be compared to Louis Jordan and Louis Prima. (and who knows, maybe even Spike Jones...) But it's FUN music, not BRAIN music. If you understand that, you may understand them. If you understand them, you'll stop whining.

 

Date:	16-Feb-1999 22:13:11
From:	BECCA
	I believe that whatever makes people happy, excluding the obvious of course, is what's important. It's not a black thing, a white thing, or any other stereotypical issue. Granted, though I have not been a part of this "swing craze," I am a devout and religious listener of all music. Any real musician can tell a fraud from an original, but hey, let's face it. Everyone is not a musician! We all have to give credit to the new phase of swing bands and groups for at least making an effort to bring gack some of the most unappreciated music in the history of jazz. Give it a chance. One man's garbage is another man's treasure.

 

Date:	02-May-1999 15:08:04
From:	Thomas Limon (Dizzybird@kufomail.com/)
	The 90's swing movement is great for people like me. My heart is in jazz. Jazz is a form of music a lot of society has forgotten about. As a musician mysielf(a young musician) the new found popularity of swing has helped me greatly. Especially with my dream to become a jazz musician. Please realize I'm not just a 16 year old swing fan who is only captivated by Brian Setzer and the Big Bad Voodoo Daddies, but an avid jazz fan. As I'm writing this I'm listening to Benny Carters Ain't Misbehavin'. Give young people like me a chance. We just might be able to cut it

 

Date:	03-May-1999 09:37:47
From:	gypsy and reno jazz recording artists (keychord@aol.com)
	hey, ive been on " it" since 1990. knowing in my "ears" that the world has gotta be fed up with "trash-music and drum machines". we released our debut cd in jan 99. ' A JOURNEY TO THE HEART, REMEMBER WHEN?".. RETRO JAZZ WITH A TECHNO TAKE....NEW ARRANGEMENTS AND AWESOME JAZZ VOCALS ON SOME STANDARDS, NEVER DONE LIKE THIS BEFORE. WE SWING, WE ROCK, WE MAKE YOU CRY, LAUGH, AND GET YOU " VERY RELAXED AND.,..PERHAPS ..EVEN EXCITED... WWW.MAMMOTHARTISTS.COM/GYPSY & RENO. THIS CD HAD TO BE MADE, IVBE BEEN A JAZZ FAN SINCE IN- VETRO, MY DAD WAS JAZZ GUITARIST, JOHNNIE BIRNELLLE, ST LOUIS, PLAYED WITH CASA LOMA ORCHESTRA. ME ON BANDSTAND SINCE I WAS AN INFANT. GROOVING, HAD TO DO MY OWN RENDITIONS OF: MISTY, EMBRACABLE YOU, SOPHICATED LADY, AS TIME GOES BY, ETC.ETC. ALL UNUSUAL ORIGINIAL ARRANGEMENTS, BY RENO LEGRANDE...ENJOY..WE ARE HERE TO STAY, OBVIOUSLY.JAZZ RULES..

 

Date:	06-Jun-1999 02:14:58
From:	Jenny Miller (clarinader86@juno.com)
	I think that the "swing" they've got out now, isn't half bad. It still isn't swing, though. It's an improvement. That rap crap is horrible. This new "swing" will, in time, get better.

 

Date:	19-Oct-1999 21:56:14
From:	God
	Listen to everything, cherish what you like, ignore the critics (for the most part), and you will be rewarded in heaven. Believe me, I know what I'm talking about. Bad jazz is played loud, around the clock in the other place.

 

Date:	28-Oct-1999 18:18:01
From:	Dee Dee
	Hey, put on a Squirrel Nut Zipper CD and then put on a Basie CD or an early Ellington and it's like going from a bicycle to a roomy old sedan whos doors go "woomf" when you close them.

 

Date:	28-Oct-1999 23:10:25
From:	Wendell
	Anna Lisa - Like there haven't been white jazz musicians that have been treated shabbily? Neglected? Financially taken advantage of??? There's plenty of bitter white musicians just as there are plenty of black musicians who have sold out, gone for bucks etc. etc. All you have to do is reach into a smooth jazz bin and you'll notice that they're not all white faces on the covers of those CDs . . .

 

Date:	07-Nov-1999 20:03:30
From:	Alan
	Black = Bad, White = Good White = Bad, Black = Good Two brands of racism as far as I can tell.

 

Date:	11-Nov-1999 21:57:40
From:	Howie
	Swing is great music, of course it was only a matter of time before it returned! And it will return again in some form decades from now - it's in the eternal swim.

 

Date:	13-Nov-1999 13:18:50
From:	Walter (Walter@somesense.com)
	Of course jazz has returned to swing - it is a sign of health, a sign of regained senses after decades of decadent blathering by misguided sophistos with too much theory bouncing around in their heads. There is now hope for jazz -it has returned to its senses!! In more ways than one.

 

Date:	16-Nov-1999 18:16:07
From:	Ryan
	Swing's the Thing. As it gets bigger the better musicians will jump on the bandwagon and the quality will spiral upward.

 

Date:	26-May-2000 17:28:51
From:	James (anamanaci@aol.com)
	Hey, all you jazz nazis, quit yer whinin. All the over-seasoned cats who can play their asses off should go out and get themselves cool suits and get a gig with a swing band because it's a regular gig where you get to play in front of huge audiences and basically play whatever jazz you want in your solos (certainly more than on a wedding gig). p.s. Can anyone tell me where great swing/jazz musicians hang out in Los Angeles? I'm dying out here. I'm talking about people who dig Vic Dickenson more than Watrous; Prez and Hawk more than Brecker and Trane (no offence intended to those styles). Thank you forever.

 

Date:	26-May-2000 17:33:24
From:	James (anamanaci@aol.com)
	And furthermore... the "swing scene" is simply part of a general movement in the culture to recapture some of the style and good taste of earlier eras that has been lost in the current rock, goth, rap, raunchy sexual ooze climate of the last couple decades.

 

Date:	30-May-2000 18:51:43
From:	T.R. (she)
	I'm no goth, rap etc. fan but what's wrong with a little sexual ooze? Like the Johnny Hodges ooze. Like the Ben Webster ooze. Like swing music was made for the asexual set? Loosen up . . . a little poozle might do you some good.

 

Date:	01-Sep-2000 21:40:39
From:	Al Trombone
	Swing a ding ding!!

 

Date:	06-Nov-2000 20:56:02
From:	Vicki
	Big band and small group swing is simply great music. It was inevitable that sooner or later it would be "rediscovered."

 

Date:	31-Jan-2001 13:09:40
From:	Andreas
	I think the resurgence is a response to the sad state of popular music today, which is entirely money-driven at this point. Rock is basically spent as a creative force, and whatever creative potential rap may have had has been wiped out by a race to the bottom of the barrel by these gangsta rappers. Little wonder that young people are looking for something else. For my taste I'll stick with Ellington and Basie and leave The Cherry Poppin' Daddies and the others in the dumpster. Most of these guys are musically quite inept and clueless. Nevertheless I can't be too critical. There is the chance that at least some of their audience will be motivated to check out the real stuff, and just maybe pick up a trumpet or clarinet or whatever. Someone else in this thread made an important comment. The point of this resurges is about fun and dancing. Note that during the 30's the biggest sellers were not Ellington, Ast Tatum, or some of the other small groups (which is were a lot of the truly creative and inovative music was happening), but with bands like Glenn Miller's, who played a lot of pop tunes that were really outside of jazz. Most kids then, as now, were interested in dancing and partying. Therefore to criticize them for not being musically adept or creative is to miss the point. Modern Jazz, from Bepop onward, is not music that one can appreciate in the fullest sense upon first listening. It certainly took me some time. I came to the music via another bane of some jazz "fundamentalists" - fusion. The way I see it, anthing that might expose, even if indirectly, a new generation to jazz, cannot be anything but positive. Granted that most will move on to another fad and remain clueless about the real stuff, but some might just open their minds.

 

Date:	13-Feb-2001 10:18:44
From:	john johnson (bob@kih.com)
	I agree

 

Date:	26-Aug-2001 14:35:41
From:	Rusty Cashman (rcashman@correlant.com)
	This thread has been quiet for some months. I would just add that I think it is very healthy for Jazz to have a bridge between it and popular music. It is useful to remember that Jazz in the 1920's and 30's (and really the 40's and 50's as well) WAS popular music. As for the neo swing music itself, as with all popular entertainment, much of it is junk and will be forgotten as the fad fades. However, I think that some of it especially what the Squirrel Nut Zippers and some of the people assoicated with them (such as Andrew Bird) will prove more lasting. Who knows someday it may even endup in the Penguin Guide or the AMG. Certainly some of the stuff Lavay Smith has done (whether original or interesting revivals of great stuff from the past) is very strong indeed.