Read Pat Metheny's original comments Read Pat Metheny's follow-up comments News Story Surrounding Comments AAJ TOPIC: Kenny G: To Defend The Indefensible

 

Date:	14-Jun-2000 23:59:50
From:	Mike R. (mricci@allaboutjazz.com)
	I personally love this rant... "When Kenny G decided that it was appropriate for him to defile the music of the man who is probably the greatest jazz musician that has ever lived by spewing his lame-ass, jive, pseudo bluesy, out-of-tune, noodling, wimped out, f***ed up playing all over one of the great Louis's tracks (even one of his lesser ones), he did something that I would not have imagined possible. He, in one move, through his unbelievably pretentious and calloused [sic] musical decision to embark on this most cynical of musical paths, s**t all over the graves of all the musicians past and present who have risked their lives by going out there on the road for years and years developing their own music inspired by the standards of grace that Louis Armstrong brought to every single note he played over an amazing lifetime as a musician..."

 

Date:	15-Jun-2000 01:54:06
From:	Jerry Levinson (jerrylev@adelphia.net)
	I'm not very familiar with Kenny G's recordings, particularly the Louis Armstrong "tribute" that so incensed Mr. Metheny, however, I haven't been impressed by what little of Kenny G I've heard. Pat Metheny is certainly more respected for his musical skills, both compositional and improvisational, by both critics and musicians. If Kenny G sues Pat for libel, he might lose!

 

Date:	15-Jun-2000 03:54:35
From:	Flibbert J. Goosty (goosty@angelfire.com)
	"You can be anybody you want to be in this world, if only somebody will let you" - Chip Burris Pat is attacking the messenger, when he should be attacking the message. Maybe he actually thinks the world is on the level. SOMEBODY produced all those horrible Kenny G (wiz) records that we all condemn as pseudo-jazz sell-outs. Obviously some suit decided that Mr. G's music would be accessable music in the eyes and ears of all the mindless, robotic souls that roam this planet. On a lighter note, if there were no Kenny G., what would we hear everytime we walk into an elevator, or a doctor's office? As painful as it is, we must face the harsh reality of it all: It aint called show-BUSINESS for nothing, folks.

 

Date:	15-Jun-2000 12:18:52
From:	J Bass (jazzman712@yahoo.com)
	I absolutely agree with Pat's comments. Kenny G is the musical equivalent of a stain on a white shirt. For him to think that he ranks up there with Louis Armstrong is flat out ignorant and disgusting. Thank you Pat for exposing an appalling attack on the jazz world.

 

Date:	15-Jun-2000 13:49:09
From:	Richard Barker
	I've been in the music business for 40 years and I find Pat Metheny's sickening attack on Kenny G uncalled for.He is a disgace to our proffesion.If I never heard his name again I would be happy.

 

Date:	15-Jun-2000 14:08:15
From:	Prabhu Ganesan
	Mr.Richard Barker,you can go fly your kite on a sunny day,up kenny g's lame-ass. WHAT METHENY DID WAS BRAVE,he said it out...what we all thought,he spilled it out,and for that,this elevates music...i wish i could say how dumb and idiotic the music of kenny g,is but there aint no enough vocab in english to critisize this chap,because he sucks,let me just tell you that,if i were to die from a mishappen,my last wish will be to run his soprano up his own ...errr..save this for later.

 

Date:	15-Jun-2000 14:13:26
From:	Kenny Werer (nilson@balls.com)
	FAGGET SAX,the new style in unimprovised music, for info check out www.kennygsucks.com. LONG LIVE METHENY!!

 

Date:	16-Jun-2000 00:02:10
From:	richard baker
	Kenny Werer,It figures, all the lames and homophbics like yourself would be in Pats corner.I can't picture a crazy like you digging jazz.....

 

Date:	16-Jun-2000 00:09:09
From:	Don
	Methane'ee burned the GEEEEEE! "That's a gas!" OK! Bottom line....(if you can grasp the tribute theme, in the first place as I feel the actual motive behind this CD,was simply to keep the cashflow comin'and goin' and what better vein than the old "tribute concept, when the creative well starts to run dry..KinneeePee of course can fall back on "How much these ICONS meant to him and all that "jizz", as "Jazz!" How nice it would have been to see somewhere in the credits, that the extra windfall bucks made with this CD could have been also given to deserving musical charities, etc. but sadly, I think in this case....It was Kinneeeepee's pity-pockets?????? Methane, BareBonesBoney-JesseJames...on and on and on...of the smoooooth Jizzz world..are all beginning to run a little dry of ideas and themes...(Elevator music-is beginning to sound more and more alike...I am a old trumpet player, who played with a major NW symphony in the early 60's,Taught music in public schools, played in bunches of NW coastal local NW dance bands....back singers, played in small club settings..gigged the ski resorts in winter...roam the coast in the summer...It doesn't take too long to know where a musical soul is coming from or where his heart "lies" but it does appear that Kenny and others today...are runnin on empty. I am an artist and art director and I sadly, I know what it's like to create on demand...and know how many people rely on you to keep coming up with new and exciting ways to skin the same old cat...KNOW WHAT HAPPENS, WHEN YOU MIX TOO MANY BEAUTIFUL AND WONDERFUL COLORS TOGETHER,OVER AND OVER AGAIN??? YEP~~ YA' GOT A LOUSY SHADE OF BUTT-UGLY FLEAHISH "GREY"or in this illustration...A very shabby shade of Kenney "Grey!"...

 

Date:	16-Jun-2000 02:03:21
From:	Colin (cfarns@home.com)
	Absolutely right on, Pat. Kenny G belongs in the Muzak category, and for him to try to associate himself with Louis in a way is as ridiculous as Kenny's attempt at solos usually are. Aside from my admiration of Pat Metheny as a musician, I respect his opinion on matters musical, having heard him in live interviews. Who better to put Kenny G-od awful in his place.

 

Date:	16-Jun-2000 08:45:42
From:	Dave Timmons
	I heard the gawd-awful Classics on the Key of G and it almost made me puke. Pure dreck. A friend of mine argued that Gorelick is exposing his tone-deaf fans to Louis Armstrong, and that some of them will go out and purchase Louis' music. Does anyone believe this? Personally, I think smooth jazz fans are incapable of making the leap to real jazz.

 

Date:	16-Jun-2000 10:17:47
From:	Able Baker
	Who or what is a Kenny G ???????????

 

Date:	16-Jun-2000 13:51:58
From:	Stu Bleguro
	Richard Barker....are you Kenny's manager? :) Do you notice no one else has supported you? Do you wonder why? Pat...u da man. Or as Charlie would say, 'Solid, Jackson'

 

Date:	16-Jun-2000 14:54:38
From:	michael parsons (nutrabest1@home.com)
	I am 51 years old and have followed blues, jazz, R&B and to a lesser extent all kinds of music my entire life. Next to my family it is my passion. It's what makes me and millions of others like yourselves happy. It's art. It's not a blueprint. Live and let live. Kenny G is by no means my favorite artist but he does produce music that makes many people happy. Let's ease up a bit. This elitism regarding straight ahead vs. smooth or contemporary jazz borders on the extreme thinking which gave birth to the "Final Solution" methods put in place by Nazis. Art and negativism cannot peacefully coexist. If you don't like it, don't listen to it. That's what I do. But I certainly have no right to tell you or anyone that they can or can't enjoy art. I'm not sure that I understand this extreme viewpoint at all. Kenny G is a musician. I, like most of you, don't care much for his music, but I don't condemn him for creating it nor those who choose to listen to it. Please, go listen to whatever it is that makes you happy and let it go.

 

Date:	16-Jun-2000 19:54:28
From:	D.P.Charron
	Reminds Me of what I once heard; The Difference between Kenny G. and an UZI, Is the Uzi eventually runs out of Ammo..

 

Date:	17-Jun-2000 04:10:03
From:	Paul Unger (unger2@flash.net)
	Mr. Parsons, Although I agree with you about easing up on the "elitism" part of your message. I do not believe it applies to the comments made by Mr. Metheny. Here is a case of one artist making comments about the integrity and musical decisions of another artist that effect not only that artists musical statement but the art as a whole and society itself. I myself do not care for Kenny G's music, much as I also do not care for much of the fodder on network TV, but Mr. G's appropriation of Louis Armstrong was a totally exploitive act. And if he puts himself on the level of Louis Armstrong than it is the right of the artist, and the public, to critisize him at that level. We would not complain if this type of critism were leveled at another artist in any other art form. Why should music be any different?

 

Date:	17-Jun-2000 13:51:20
From:	Ken Watters (kenwatt@aol.com)
	Here we go! Y'all check this out: http://206.24.127.9/qManage/questionView.cfm?queID=2233 Pat Metheny is what ALL musicians want to be in a lot of ways. A WONDERFUL player, composer, and is CONSTANTLY growing. He NEVER plays "down" to the audience, either. He's a great example of someone who doesn't believe that a musician has to do that to achieve commercial success.

 

Date:	18-Jun-2000 00:33:50
From:	Ron (rdg@whoneedsmailbombs.com)
	Pat Metheny is a great player. Too bad he's a musical bigot. Jazz _is_ what jazz players _does_ and there is no difference between Metheny's attack on Kenny G and the sick ramblings of a ethnophobic cultural purist. If Metheny had said he thinks Kenny G's stuff sucks, well...no problem. But he didn't. Metheny crossed the line into petty pscychologizing and was arrogant enough to claim the ability to mind-read what Kenny G meant by doing what he did. It's simple...Kenny G admires Armstrong and wanted to play along. Methinks Mr Armstrong would be sickened by Metheny's attack. Armstrong saw enough purist shit like this being black, and I'm _sure_ this kind of blustering macho jazz-purist crap is nothing like what he hoped for when he played and sang *What a Wonderful World* All Metheny has done with this rant is further cement the common feeling among lots of musicians of many stripes that jazz is a haven for arrogant musical wankers. Metheny is feeding the stereotype and that hurts jazz more than anything Kenny G ever did.

 

Date:	18-Jun-2000 21:36:15
From:	Pete C.
	"Kenny G admires Armstrong and wanted to play along." Ron, do you actually believe this? Kenny G is all about selling records. This gimmick worked for Natalie Cole and I guess it worked for Kenny G too. I'd like to hear the G-man play over Giant Steps.

 

Date:	19-Jun-2000 00:12:57
From:	Michael (astralecho@aol.com)
	It's about time!!! For too many years this clown, Kenny G, has been poluting the airwaves with his garbage. The very fact that there is a whole generation of youth growing up today who associate this moron with jazz, sickens me to the core. And yes, the producers, DJ's, and record labels are to blame too. It is another example of how greedy corporate America has spoon fed us another no playing loser and marketed him as a "jazz musician." There are loads of young players who really have chops out there who will never get their due and never have the chance to enjoy a fraction of what Kenny must earn in a year. Though I have never been a huge Metheny fan, I totally support his comments. I am so happy someone from the true jazz community spoke up on this. He should be commended. I mean what is next?....Dave Koz presents the Music of John Coltrane. Respect for the masters, Michael

 

Date:	19-Jun-2000 01:03:22
From:	clyde cannon
	the prez may dig kenney G, but God bless Pat Metheney.

 

Date:	19-Jun-2000 05:13:40
From:	Ron (ron@whoneedsmailbombs.com)
	Al Hirt got the same sellout rap as Kenny G and Al was a monster player. Kenny G isn't a miracle worker but he's pretty good and obviously lucky with his career so I'm happy for him. As for Kenny G playing over Coltrane, well..that'd sure shut folks up, wouldn't it :-) Kenny? You gotta second duet in ya?

 

Date:	19-Jun-2000 10:56:05
From:	Lian Amber (lian@lianamber.com)
	In regards to Ron's comment that Louis would be sickened by Metheny's comments, I'd like to remind you, Ron, that Louis VEHEMENTLY attacked Bird, Diz and BeBop when they first began playing it. So if he was willing to publicly attack these musical geniuses for playing music that he didn't personally like, I can't imagine what he would say to Kenny G. for defiling his own music.... Louis was a genius - that doesn't mean he was a saint....

 

Date:	19-Jun-2000 13:02:22
From:	patricia (patriciadryburgh@email.com)
	I'm relatively new to the jazz scene so my comments are tentative at best. However, it seems to me that Kenny G is "jazz for dummies" in that I don't detect a sou of creativity in his delivery of any of his music. It is mass-produced pap. The musicians that I admire, Coltrane, Armstrong, Bird and many more, never play the same song the same way twice. I'm sure that Mr.Gorilick could repeat every song he ever did, to the note, every time. It makes me sad that the truly creative musicians can hardly get gigs anymore while Mr. G. lives like a czar. It just ain't fair.

 

Date:	19-Jun-2000 14:01:33
From:	Strawdog
	I must agree with Methenys opinion of Kenny G. His music is insipid and uncreative and can't be called jazz. But I would also say that Methenys music is in the same category. It is sad that those of us who grew up with the greats like Trane and Miles have to hear this pablum on our local jazz station

 

Date:	19-Jun-2000 16:54:45
From:	joe h
	Right on, Pat. Unfortunately, the presentation of your music suffers from the same homogenation and lack of vitality as KG. Get back to basics and get rid of the synth.

 

Date:	19-Jun-2000 20:42:04
From:	Rick Banales (riczen@hotmail.com)
	I think that Pat is totally within his right to degrade Kenny G for his playing, writing, attitude, hell-even his hair! Kenny G does not play "jazz" (or in Rahsaan Roland Kirk's words, "Black American Classical Music") as much as Mantovani didn't play classical music. Same type of instrumentation and outer appearance, but not much else. If we were to turn the clock back 30 years when Louis was still around, would he have sung on a track with Kenny? Probably. Would he have been flashing his famous smile all the way through, or would he have been gritting his teeth waiting to give Kenny a good old-fashioned New Orleans/Ninth Ward bare-knuckle attitude adjuster behind the studio? I think Louis would have taken the money and told Kenny he ain't no Sidney Bechet. The important thing is that we have to let our kids listen to James Carter AND Kenny G, Wes Montgomery AND Charo, and let them decide what's hip. I got turned on to jazz in junior high when an art teacher put on an MJQ album during class. Make sure you give your kids that experience-buy them the new Joe Zawinul CD as well as the new Eminem they've been bugging you about. AND TAKE YOUR KIDS TO HEAR LIVE JAZZ!! Pat's right, Kenny G is no Coltrane, but Easy Listening is not supposed to be. Thanks, Rick

 

Date:	20-Jun-2000 01:18:18
From:	Ann (Martiann@tomatoweb.com)
	I personally never like the bubble gum version of jazz Kenny G plays. I find nothing in his music that is original or compelling. I am sure in the future his music will be relegated to the kind of stuff you hear when you are placed on hold on the phone. As for Metheny’s comments about the overdubbing of previously recorded song. Overdubbing other artist work simply show a lack of creativity of the person do it.

 

Date:	20-Jun-2000 11:01:01
From:	David R. Adler (david_adler@margeotes.com)
	I think Metheny is essentially right about Kenny G, but his choice of words was surprisingly harsh for such a mellow-seeming person. I wonder whether he's overcompensating because some people have lobbed the "smooth jazz" accusation at Metheny himself? David

 

Date:	20-Jun-2000 13:11:09
From:	Bob Doyle (rkennedydoyle@hotmail.com)
	Louis Armstrong is my favorite Jazz musician and Thank God I haven't heard that piece of flying pig slop that some people would call music. Although I am not too familiar with Pat Methany's music, I would like to thank him for saying what needed to be said. If I ever hear that piece of inhumane torture, I might just go ballistic and start ranting and raving and demanding that somebody turn it off right now or they will live to regret it. I thought it was bad enough that Britney Spears did her own version of The Rolling Stones "Satisfaction", but this is even worse. Putting his tracks over a recording of Mr. Armstrong's, like he was actually in the studio with the legendary figure(Louis, as nice as he was, would have told him where to go with that mess) is like boosting yourself up to the Sistine Chapel's ceiling and adding your own touch to the masterpiece that Michelangelo left for our enjoyment. While he's at it, why doesn't Kenny G, hire a painter, so that he can make himself the thirteenth apostle in Michelangelo's painting of "The Last Supper"? Redd Foxx, the great comedian, use to say "Fred G. Sanford, the G stands for, glad you're going!" Well, the G in Kenny G stands for GOD AWFULL!!

 

Date:	21-Jun-2000 20:39:16
From:	David (-----------)
	One of the interesting side effects of this brilliantly written piece is that has also brought out people who are totally clueless of Metheny's own music. To anyone who thinks Metheny is anything less than one of the two or three most important improvising musicians out there, all I can assume is that you have not really listened to his music. There is simply no one else I can think of who has written as much great music, led as many great bands (the PMG, trios with Haden and Higgins, with Holland and Haynes, 80/81(!), Song X, the quartet with Hancock, Holland and Dejohnette, his duets with Haden and the one with Jim Hall) played as a sideman on important records (Garret's Pursuance, Brecker's Hudson, Thomas's Faces, Redman's Wish, etc) and influenced an entire generation musicians as Metheny has. To say that he in any way has anything to do with anything related to anything having to do with Kenny G or the "Smooth" world is to show that you are just, well,.....ignorant - there's no nice way to say it. Metheny's music speaks well for itself - and the people that know - know.

 

Date:	22-Jun-2000 16:20:28
From:	Greg German (greg@media.berkeley.edu)
	Well said, David. Anyone who would put Pat in the same "Smooth" boat with Kenny has not really listened to Pat's music. I'll be the first to admit that his use of the guitar synth might be viewed by some as regrettable, but you shouldn't let that obscure the fact that he has played some great jazz. I dare anyone to listen to "Question & Answer" (w/Dave Holland and Roy Haynes) and then say that Pat can't play or that he is even remotely deserving of being grouped with Kenny G. Pat Metheny is an important jazz guitarist who has influenced many players and is very involved in working with the other heavyweights of jazz. Can anyone name a saxophonist who claims to be influenced by KG? Who has KG played with as a sideman? Where are the hundreds (if not thousands) of undiscovered guitarists who can play circles around PM but just can't get a break? It's fine if you don't like PM's music, but in the context of this discussion and PM's comments, it is not appropriate to group him with Kenny G. No one forced Dave Holland, Roy Haynes, Ornette Coleman, Jack DeJohnette, Jaco Pastorius, Billy Higgins, et al. to work with Pat Metheny. Let me know when one of them shows up on a Kenny G record...

 

Date:	22-Jun-2000 16:41:04
From:	Rick Banales (riczen@hotmail.com)
	I have to admit though, i'll probably be one of the first to buy that Ornette Coleman, Derek Bailey, Gregg Bendian and Kenny G free-improv blowout when it comes out... Maybe he can do a duet with Cecil Taylor on "Songbird" ;)

 

Date:	22-Jun-2000 17:45:41
From:	elbaron
	Kenny G may not be smart, good looking, heterosexual, or even a good musician , but he (like every other jackass) has the right to do whatever the hell he wants. That is what makes this country a democracy. Even though i wouldnt touch his music with any length of pole, i dont think pat has any right to cut him down! So leave all the retards to their own devices and work on making what you like better.

 

Date:	22-Jun-2000 21:43:20
From:	Rick Banales (riczen@hotmail.com)
	elbaron: "..So leave all the retards to their own devices and work on making what you like better..." How do you do both? Isn't Pat helping to make a distinction between what is really a part of the jazz continuum and what is a bad imitation? I hope that if you have kids in school a teacher is telling them there is a difference between Ernest Hemingway and Jackie Collins. Part of our responsibility as humans is to pass on an appreciation of what's important in our culture. Many people expect that responsibilty to be taken up by our overcrowded schools, so they end up pretty suprised when Johnny can't read or do math. When I worked in record stores, I was very suprised at the people who told me they didn't like jazz or classical. I, however, was not suprised at the answer I got when I asked if they had heard any jazz or classical. To that person, the only thing they think is "Jazz" is Kenny G because that's the only thing they had ever been exposed to with that tag. One RESPONSIBILITY we have as caretakers of each other is to make sure we let each other know about all the beauty in the world. I also think we have an equal RESPONSIBILITY to separate the wheat from the chaff. Besides, I personally think that if every Kenny G fan could hear an album like, say, Jan Garbarek's "Photo with Blue Sky", ECM Records' sales would triple.

 

Date:	23-Jun-2000 13:38:31
From:	Malcolm D. Turner (mturner@ecx.com)
	First of all, the music ($$$$) industry is run by pencil-neck, pseudo music enthusiast, number crunching individuals who could care less about the purity of music, art or creative expression in any form. This may sound funny but Kenny G. is somewhat victim of the Frankentein theory,(an experiment gone bad). Pat's comments may seem harsh to some because they have no idea of the emotion, feeling, sacrfice and lifestyle of jazz greats like; J. Coltrane, Armstrong, Miles, Monk and etc. To appreciate real jazz you have to appreciate the heart and soul of the artist. Kenny unfortunately in terms of purity is a marketing vehicle nothing more nothing less. On the other hand Pat's influence has impacted the world and the music industry more than Kenny and several other so-called jazz artist ever will. I wonder what the world would say to Ricky Martin dubbing over an Elvis track. Oh! and just for the record, we all know where Elvis got his groove. Pat continue to produce great music and influence the world with your wonderful tones and riffs and leave Kenny and his followers to the pseudo jazz black hole.

 

Date:	23-Jun-2000 14:29:10
From:	Henry Warden (hcwarde@juno.com)
	I went through some "tough" musical times (63 now) and I certainly feel the same about the KG music thing as Pat Matheny does. Using a lot of crude words probably is the best way to digtially express feelings, so be it. One has to try to appreciate just what "free expression" jazz is about, and how you can really enter into a musician's soul by listening to his works. There is no soul in KG music.

 

Date:	23-Jun-2000 14:49:37
From:	Ken Dryden (kenjazz@vei.net)
	Every track on "Classics in the Key of G" deserves to be condemned. The unimaginative "smoothed down" remakes of previously classic songs and the ridiculous sampling of Satchmo's vocal from the original "What A Wonderul World" caused one wag to create the South Park cartoon parody posted a few months back on the "Bird Lives!" site. Jazz Times made a big deal with an article quoting the "G" that he was bored with smooth jazz and wanted to venture into something more interesting, yet the magazine either didn't have a single staffer willing to review it or they were possibly afraid of offending pseudo-jazz label Arista and losing their advertising dollars. Kenny, stay where you are. No one can question your credentials in your own field of smooth jazz, but you're a Class D player when you try to play in the major leagues of jazz, a guaranteed strike out victim on three pitches without coming close to making contact! Pat Metheny deserves credit for speaking his mind without worrying about political correctness.

 

Date:	23-Jun-2000 22:55:47
From:	alan j (couldgiveacrap@aol.com)
	metheny paid kenny g a compliment, when he stated that what he plays is the "dumbest music." i'd call it noise. imo, kenny g plays crap. that ain't music. every chance i get, i take kenny g's cd's out of the jazz section, and move them, or hide them. he is so, so awful. his playing makes me violently sick.

 

Date:	24-Jun-2000 01:40:03
From:	Leo
	I read Pats comments with interest and agree with just about everything he said.HOWEVER I do feel that Pat was a little over the top. After all Pat has made alot of money himself, whats wrong with that, and its not just how he made it. I do not listen to Kenny because it's shit and I think Pat is a wonderful player. Bit I have also heard other comments from other Jazz people that even Pat had sold out sometimes!No SHIT! No Pat is right but he should be a little more sensitive on his comments.

 

Date:	24-Jun-2000 08:00:14
From:	Eric Taffyn (etaffyn@iinet.net.au)
	Great musicians steal, terrible ones borrow!A great musician makes his influences his own.What is wrong with one person saying what he thinks? Pat Metheny has made a comment on another musicians method of operating and it's true. I have no problems with "smooth" jazz or any music, I do have a problem when one musician uses another musicians work to "sell" his own. There have been great examples of musicians using other composer's works (Miles Davis - Porgy and Bess) but this is different. If Kenny G is sincere then let him give all the royalties to the Armstrong estate!

 

Date:	24-Jun-2000 08:25:22
From:	shamlethacktor (shamlethacktor@yahoo.com)
	news up-date RINGO STARR IN DRUM BATTLE WITH ART BLAKEY!

 

Date:	24-Jun-2000 08:32:53
From:	silver (thesilversyrup@aol.com)
	you don't say!! anyway,here's news:ELTON JOHN'S DOING PIANO DUETS WITH ART TATUM.....looks like the ole syrup's on a winner here.

 

Date:	24-Jun-2000 11:19:26
From:	Rob Mounsey (mounsey@flyingmonkey.com)
	I've always had a lot of respect, admiration and affection for Pat -- He's an absolutely wonderful musician and a great guy -- and I have to say I love him even more now that he's cut loose and spoken the rude truth on this. It's dangerous for a musician to publicly criticize someone else's work -- One is vulnerable to charges of jealousy over Mr. G's commercial success & filthy lucre -- and Pat, who really is a kind and decorous type usually, obviously reached his limit with this insipid, LCD stuff. More power to him! BTW, comparing this Armstrong thing to Natalie Cole's duets with her father is pretty unfair. It WAS her Dad, and Natalie, believe me, can REALLY sing. She's the real thing, unlike some circular-breathing soprano player I could name... -- Rob Mounsey

 

Date:	24-Jun-2000 11:26:36
From:	Ryan K.
	I think this discussion page is a perfect example of how Kenny G does so well. Although I read some very insightful comments, so many of the other comments (ie - Pat Matheny is a "smooth" jazz musician, "smooth" jazz is just another musical artform, etc. . .) are just rantings by people who simply do not know enough about Jazz, or even what jazz really is. As a professional Jazz musician, I feel the only solution to this "instrumental pop" that Kenny Gorelick sells, and the success he has selling it, is to teach all fellow jazz listeners, or future Jazz listeners, young and old, what Jazz is all about - expressing one's self through spontaneously created musical stories. This definition of Jazz incorporates all different styles and genres which deserve to be associated with Jazz music: everyone from Louis to Coltrane to Cecil Taylor to Joshua Redman to Jon Zorn to Ben Allison(if you haven't checked out Ben Allison yet, hop to it!!! - one of NY's finest up-and-coming bassist/composer/band leader!) Not surprisingly, Kenny Gorelick's music does not come even close to this defintion. In fact, according to my defintion, Kenny Gorelick's music is really Anti-Jazz - there is no way that one could call his music expressive seeing how it is the same everytime - this would be like an author writing the same novel each year!, it is definately not spontaneously created(not improvised), and it is most definately not creative. His latest effort is the least creative yet! The Egotistical Leech!!!!!!

 

Date:	24-Jun-2000 12:09:01
From:	bob raezer (bob_raezer@hotmail.com)
	yeah,i agree with pat. it's like me saying: ok, i'm going to do a tribute to Lyle Mays, but it comes out sounding like lawrence welk. kenny g should stay in his own category called: "lullabye's for secretaries who really dig john tesh and yanni" or "crooning for dollars". kenny g has contributed absolutely nothing to JAZZ and should be ashamed to be associated with jazz. smooth or whatever, to me REAL jazz is ORIGINAL freeform improvization that should inspire people to reach deep inside themselves to create and express their own feelings with music. just be happy that kenny g doesn't turn you on.

 

Date:	24-Jun-2000 13:17:23
From:	Roger Crane (roger.crane@losangeles.af.mil)
	Pat Metheny's article, although passionate and articulate, won't, of course, do a damn bit of good. He is preaching to the choir. If any Kenny G fans even read it, they won't "get" it. They don't hear a lack of ideas, they don't hear a sax going sharp, they don't hear cliche after cliche. A whole lot of people pay a whole lot of money to witness a whole lot of meaningless breathing exercises and say "wow" to each other. Jazz is a minority art that requires "big" ears. I have not observed that Kenny G fans have "big" ears. As some famous wit once said "YOU WILL NEVER GO BROKE UNDERESTIMATING THE TASTE OF THE AMERICAN PUBLIC. Roger Crane

 

Date:	24-Jun-2000 13:19:48
From:	David R. Adler (david_adler@margeotes.com)
	To those who totally misinterpreted my remark about Pat Metheny overcompensating because some have lobbed the "smooth jazz" accusation at Metheny himself — If you read my original remark, you'll note that I myself did not lump Metheny's music in the same category as Kenny G's. Far from it. I have been listening to Metheny for years and am intimately familiar with his music. Any honest listener would have to admit, however, that SOME of Metheny's output with the Pat Metheny Group falls within the radio-friendly pop-jazz orbit. So what I said is this: maybe Pat feels a little touchy about what some critics have said about this portion of his output, and that's why he flamed Kenny G. the way he did. So folks, please, before you flame and start calling people ignorant, give what you're responding to a second read. It's simply good manners. David

 

Date:	24-Jun-2000 15:55:45
From:	Dave Ost
	This is incredible. Is this a Metallica fan site? Pat Metheny sounds like a Metallica fan complaining that the music is not loud or hard enough. I thought jazz listeners were supposed to have more than a couple of brain cells between their ears. I don't think Louis Armstrong has personally asked Pat Metheny to protect his integrity. A Pat Metheny and Kenny G bout, now there's an interesting ticket. The question is will the rabid Pat Metheny bite Kenny G's ear. Mike Tyson watch out.

 

Date:	24-Jun-2000 16:21:43
From:	Dylan Roberts (robbhuhn@home.com)
	Music is about expression... whether it is Louis Armstrong, Britney Spears or even Kenny G. now my personal opinion about Kenny G is that he should shove that sax of his........well you get the idea. However, Kenny is expressing his impression of Louis Armstrongs music.. we all "hear" music differently, and Kenny is brave enough to show us how he "hears" music that has affected his life. I believe that everyone has the right to express themselves through music, even though not everyone will like it. So Kenny, thanks for the music (even though I think you suck), and to Pat... remember, just beacause you don't like it... doesn't mean someone else won't.

 

Date:	24-Jun-2000 23:52:31
From:	Ryan K.
	Come on Dylan!! Kenny G doesn't hear that music!!! He isn't expressing himself!!!Even if he was hearing that music, it still doesn't give him the excuse to try and pass it as JAZZ!@!!!

 

Date:	25-Jun-2000 00:35:14
From:	Jerry Tiberi (gtrjaz@aol.com)
	Well, I just happened to come across this situation and thought I'd check out what the big deal was. After reading a sample of the responses to Pat's comments, I am actually surprised to find myself throwing in my 2 cents worth. Here it is: € I'm a bit surprised at Pat's response to his "amazement" in regards to his mean attack on another musician in a public forum. Pat, when you spew fire and brimstone, what else would you expect? By the way what's the name of this religion Pat seems to have invented and now is defending? € Though I like what Pat's been doing lately, and it goes without saying he's got chops, and more than just a little on the ball--we don't have to look too far into the past to find some of his own "lame-ass" "Jive-ass" recordings either. In fact, at one point, he himself was so "pop" that an argument could be made that maybe he opened the door for a Kenny G to walk in through. I'm really not trying to be hard on Pat, I'm just a little amused that he is so whipped up about this guy, and the fact the rest of us aren't up in arms about it too. It'll take more than a "Kenny G" to "defile" the great music of Louis Armstrong or any other great art for that matter. That's the beauty of real art, it survives! Finally, being a musician myself, who also plays guitar, and loves music so very, very much--I really don't feel that music is in any danger at all. But here's a thought for all of you who are worried, maybe in the future they can issue out "licenses to practice music"? Later.

 

Date:	25-Jun-2000 01:46:38
From:	Dan (keystoneaa@home.com)
	Kenny G. is technically proficient; however, he doesn't play play jazz! Why don't we just GET OVER IT!!!!

 

Date:	25-Jun-2000 05:30:04
From:	Mike Jones (jonesjazz@lvcm.com)
	I must say that finally someone has articulated what every serious jazz musician has thought for years. As a pofessional jazz pianist with three cd's out on a small label (Chiarascuro), I sometimes find myself playing gigs in hotels or casinos in Vegas. The people that comprise the audience are not, as a rule, jazz fans. So many times I am greeted with comments like "Oh, I love jazz, I've got some Kenny G cd's at home!" I often let it pass because I can't possibly explain to these people what Pat Methany so eloquently does in his now famous comments. He makes it clear to even a non-musician why bad music is bad music. I'm so glad he had the nerve to say it. When I'm an old man, I want to look back on my life as an artist and be proud of what I've accomplished in music, not embarrased by it.

 

Date:	25-Jun-2000 08:49:27
From:	Oman (oman@pacifier.com)
	I have read the Metheny e-mail criticisms, both the Metheny comments and the subsequent e-mail that supported Pat's position. I also read Walter Price's editorial and its subsequent e-mail. I hate the control that the Radio Architecture has. What I think I am reading from the Metheny side is that the man Kenny G has a responsibility to preserve what true Jazz is in both expression and culture. What I also hear form the Metheny side is the folks like Kenny G are responsible for influencing or incubating the wrong interpretation and meaning of Jazz by the masses. And, as a result has fueled this Smooth Jazz/Pop interpretation of which proponents of the Metheny position believe reduces the authenticity of 'real' jazz. Yes, we all hear Mr. G's music in the elevator ... we also hear Pat Metheny in elevators and some supermarkets. I think many jazz musicians today see that there is money to be made doing pop variants. I suppose that is a pressure. Many jazz musicians wonder how they are going to be recognized. I actually like the bluesy feel of some smooth jazz ... yes ... I listen occasionally to some smooth jazz. I believe that the amount of smooth jazz that our aural cavities consume is not healthy and indeed promotes the incorrect definition of jazz to the uninitiated. The ratio of smooth jazz stations to progressive/traditional jazz stations is alarmingly vast. But, to condemn Kenny G so vehemently, as if he alone has swayed the masses to the very poopy pop smooth jazz genre is inappropriate and misplaced. Kenny did not intend to make music to attack the authentic message and meaning of 'real' jazz. Maybe we should rename the smooth jazz genre to smooth pop. If the 'straight-up/progressive' jazz had more air-time, I suppose it would have more acceptance. I also believe that it would align the uninitiated's expectation of what jazz is on a more truthful/authentic path. Finally, the issues that are really on trial here are authentic and truthful representation of jazz (its voice/phrasing, significance/history/meaning, and culture). The truth and history does have to get out to the masses ... how will this be accomplished?

 

Date:	25-Jun-2000 14:30:03
From:	Mike Winney (winn@goodnet.com)
	As one who grew up with Bird, Diz, Mingus, Monk, etc., over many years I retreated into the sanctum of my LP collection dispairing that I would ever hear anything new worthwhile. Then a few years ago I realized this was because for the most part all I heard on the radio was the so-called jazz equivalent of McDonalds--McJazz! I have since discovered many incredibly talented young jazz musicians. While I respect the G-man and others right to make the bucks what does bother me is that if this is what the listening audience is led to believe is jazz then how are they going to know any better. How is the torch going to be passed and how can these gifted musicians make a living? How? Probably by eventually playing McJazz. What a shame.

 

Date:	25-Jun-2000 20:20:48
From:	jason
	in my opinion kenny g. is a bad musician and a horrible artist he really does not care about whatever he does as long as he makes money.i dont like this kind of musicians because they are the ones that make this world really dull!! i agree with pat metheny and im glad that there is someone still who says this stuff...soon there won't be...there will be just kenny g's everywere in this planet...beware of kenny's system...

 

Date:	26-Jun-2000 08:52:34
From:	Chris S.
	i absolutely agree with oman, and have been trying to argue for years, that kenny g does not play jazz smooth or otherwise, but that he plays instrumental pop. he seems to suck a lot less if you place him in the proper context, where he belongs -- alongside michel legrand or richard clayderman or ray lynch or john tesh or...i don't know who else but i hope you get the idea. he certainly doesn't belong in the context of miles or trane or whoever else because if you do that, kenny's dead in the water. and that's why i have a hard time arguing with the main point of metheny's argument, which as i interpret it is that people who think they listen to jazz because they listen to kenny g are deceiving themselves. it is at its core dishonest -- if you can't be considered in the context of diz, miles, trane and you know the rest, people shouldn't consider you a jazz artist. kenny g is certainly not the only person to blame for this, even for his own popularity, but he certainly merits some responsibility. i believe it is no accident that kenny g is the michael bolton of jazz.

 

Date:	26-Jun-2000 12:17:08
From:	johncrawford (john@vidanova.freeserve.co.uk)
	Well done Pat Metheny on such a well articulated lambast! If every musician I knew spoke their mind this way the country I live in (UK) would produce much better jazz musicians- it's just sad that some people will do anything for a gig. But forget jazz and other musical categories- what Kenny G is an affront to MUSIC, full stop. Many musicians accept with a shrug the blatant, commercial, and cynical marketing strategies of Gorelick and the suits that shove his dross down our throats...This is why I applaud Metheny for for throwing us this hot potato and setting this dabate alight.

 

Date:	26-Jun-2000 16:37:10
From:	Marty B
	Check out this month's Downbeat in which they reprint Armstrong's listening test from 1954. He had some very harsh things to say about bop musicians. Metheny's statement doesn't bother me. If Kenny G. gets more people buying Armstrong's records that's not bad either. I don't care for Kenny G. or the Pat Metheny Group with Lyle Mays. But its no big deal. 70% of the people listen to rock, r&b and hip-hop, they won't be aware of this little squabble I am sure.

 

Date:	26-Jun-2000 18:50:26
From:	Greg (ggtbone@aol.com)
	It's about time someone spoke-up about that elevator drivel! Real jazz musicians take musical risks. The only thing extreme about Kenny-G is the Gerry-Curl!

 

Date:	26-Jun-2000 21:56:00
From:	Dave
	Most of you have made Kenny look like the "Anti-Christ" of jazz. Yes maybe he his doing it for the money, but so what, isn't that his job?...Maybe he should just throw in the horn and call it a day. As much as you are criticizing him and saying that he "sucks", your sounding like he might read this and his feelings might be hurt...I don't think so. HEY, THIS IS AMERICA! God bless him for achieving his dream. So what if he's playing with Louis, someone representing Louis had to give him permission, right? Don't we have better things to do than sit at our computers and complain? Grow up! (BTW, I'm not a Kenny fan)

 

Date:	26-Jun-2000 22:25:59
From:	Mike C. (Funkifized@hotmail.com)
	One of the main problems with arguments such as this one is the labelling. What you call jazz, I may call washed up pop drivel. What you call hillbilly crooning, I may call ingenious classic country music. When one says that he/she hates smooth jazz, I can certainly relate with that. However, I do understand that I have my own definition of smooth jazz, and you may find some great music mixed in with the Kenny G.s of the smooth set. I happen to be a major Larry Carlton fan. No, he's not a bebop player, and he sometimes covers pop tunes, like the Michael MacDonald's "Minute By Minute". But he's a kick-ass player, and he CAN play some serious bebop. He gets lumped in with the smooth set sometimes. Oh well. So does Metheny. However, there are a growing number of people who are mimicking the artistry of the Larry Carltons, the David Sanborns, the Pat Methenys. It really doesn't take a lot of listening to figure out the lack of musical discipline in a Kenny G. The plays a lot of notes really fast. Alrighty then. I think early on, he was okay, if you considered him a pop/R&B sax player. I don't believe that Metheny would have given a rat's ass about Kenny G. either way, except that Gorelick stepped over the line by desecrating a national monument, a pioneer in the 20th century. I agree totally with Metheny, not necessarily with his cheering squad. I also have to point, as someone else did here, that Gorelick is not necessarily responsible for these actions. This was very obviously some suit's way of making some serious bread, just as when G. did his "Auld Lang Syne" with historical recordings of the year and the century. Sad. But it's business. They certainly stepped over the line this time. Metheny a jazz snob? Yeah, and I've heard him say that he's the first to admit it. Outta line? Well, not really. Only that one shouldn't shoot the messenger, and G. is definitely a manikin in this whole business. Obviously he knows he's not going to make money with his sax chops. It's about the money, and it's not necessarily G. that's calling the shots. Metheny himself talked about his love for George Benson with Herbie Hancock on Benson's "White Rabbit" album. Well, George duetted with G. on this new album, I hear. On a Gershwin classic, too. Was that George's decision? Nah, I doubt it. Do you think Benson was clamoring to play with G.? You may not like Benson's smooth jazz, either, but he's one of the greatest jazz guitarists of at least the last 30 years. Yeah, he plays schlock, but he likes the groove and he likes to sing R&B. Metheny still loves Benson as a player and respects him, even if he did sit in with Kenny G. What's my point? Well, now even I'm not sure... ;-) You can like smooth jazz, whatever that is, you can like Kenny G., whatever that crap is, you can like Benson, you can like Metheny. Everyone is entitled to their own taste. But to start shitting on the pioneers of a whole genre of music, well that's pushing it. And when a guy comes along pushing his way through the great, hardworking players of the time and make it even more difficult for them to get a gig. That's wrong. When people say that Kenny G. gets people to listen to real jazz, they're wrong. If that were the case, then G. would be doing interviews, talking up Coltrane and Parker, putting in good words for them. But it doesn't behoov his bank account and he knows it. Along with the suits that back him. Right on, Pat!

 

Date:	26-Jun-2000 23:07:47
From:	Pat
	"It's about the money, and it's not necessarily G. that's calling the shots." Mike, Kenny G. is a very rich (which = a very powerful) man. He *does* call the shots. Do you think any record company weasel would tell Gorelick the way it is (now)? I don't think so.

 

Date:	27-Jun-2000 06:18:59
From:	Hilary Paprocki (hp23@mindspring.com)
	So KG is "insipid and uncreative"? Pretty much all jazz is nowadays. I haven't heard a jazz player work up a sweat since the Sixties. Hilary Paprocki

 

Date:	27-Jun-2000 12:22:14
From:	Tim Maglione (timmag@simplyweb.net)
	I thought the article/essay by Mr. Metheny was very thought-out and articulate. He very succinctly says what many of us true jazz-lovers and players have felt all along, i.e. that G's succuss is terribly disproportionate to his contribution to the evolution of the music itself. However, I have told several of my musical 'buddies' about the article, only to find that the link is no longer viable. (as of 6/27/00) Could someone please email me the article itself or direct me to a workable link so I may pass it along to my compadres? Many thanks to that person and also to all the people at "All About Jazz" for a great internet newsletter! peace, tim maglione

 

Date:	27-Jun-2000 14:08:06
From:	Ross Field (field@oceana.net)
	So KG is "insipid and uncreative"? Pretty much all jazz is nowadays. I haven't heard a jazz player work up a sweat since the Sixties. Hilary Paprocki Hilary, run - don't walk - to Chicago and catch Fred Anderson and/or Ken Vandermark etal in action. Just don't get too close to the stage or you might get drenched in their sweat while they explore the inner and outer limits of the great African American music of which Mr. G has no clue whatsoever, and while Mr. M does, he does not hesitate at times to gloss it over with syrup seeminlyg to broaden his appeal amongst the uninitiated.....

 

Date:	27-Jun-2000 16:12:56
From:	drew
	Kenny G did one good thing for jazz - it can be argued that he actually made jazz popular again. Unfortunately, his merging of jazz back into the highway of popularity pulled the wool over the eyes of the populace inciting a rampant Narcissism that pervades our artistically-challenged culture. Now it is up to the Jazz enthusiasts of the world to proclaim the good news of music: Kenny G is not, nor has he ever been, jazz or even good jazz fusion. He is the instrumental version of Celine Dion or Barbara Streisand without a beautiful voice to fill the air. If you have listened to Metheny's Tour 99-00, you also know that he has all the right in the world to say what he did on behalf of all aspirning jazz musicians. What Mr. Metheny argues is not that Kenny G is not jazz - which ought to be apparant to us all. He is rather arguing a more subtle area of the respect the jazz musician ought to give to an elder. Hancock, Ritenour, Henderson, Garrett, and others have all made tributes to jazz greats such as Davis, Montgomery, 'Trane and others, but with a dose of respect and admiration that can only be heard, and by hearing, felt. For cats like Ellington, it was a thrill to hear other good jazz musicians play their music. But this thrill came because the musician respected the music and played to the standard a great like Ellington would have had for them as a teacher, guide, and inspiration. Kenny G simply crowds the surface of the textures Armstrong carved out with his unique, raspy, baritone, and his soft but commanding horn, and presence. It is like he is carving his initials in a fine piece of 19th century furniture thinking that his initials will make it more valuable. What Metheny argues is that Kenny G fills the breathing room of a classic song with his own odd sound and technical flashiness that steps on the toes of a great one. Such an act is disrespectful and so, is fundamentally wrong. It would be like me, a drummer, overdubbing the fours that Rich trades with Krupa with my own meager approximation of the greatest drummer that ever has lived. Respect means that you can bring yourself and your music to the notes on the page of a great song knowing that with every note you play there is a great one looking over your shoulder. Thus, what Kenny G has done is simply a disrespectful and unconscienable placing of new wine into old skins rendering those old skins useless in the end. He taints a fundamental element in jazz history by filling it with himself - an act no words can be harsh enough to expose.

 

Date:	28-Jun-2000 04:52:09
From:	richard bakerThe
	the pat metheny group had requested the jazz online message eliminate the essay that pat wrote.THEY eliminated the thread,but the discussion, is continuing. fEEL A LITTLE GUILT THERE PAT,A LITTLE SCARED ABOUT YOUR REPUTATION FOR YOUR SICKENING ATTACK ON KENNY G. YOU ARE A DUMBO.

 

Date:	28-Jun-2000 09:58:42
From:	Chris Burnett (chrisb@burnettmusic.com)
	I first read the Pat Metheny article/commentary a few days ago as well. I live near Kansas City and his brother Mike is a musician/journalist here (Jazz Ambassadors of Mid-Missouri). A couple of friends from the UMKC Conservatory sent me a copy of the entire article via email too... It has nothing to do with liking Smooth Jazz or not when it comes to Kenny G, in my opinion. I totally agree with where Pat Metheny was coming from in context too! Kenny G misrepresents "jazz" and "jazz saxophone" on a scale unheard of before. The sound he now gets on his soprano saxophone is so processed and saturated with reverb that it does more harm than good when students or new people to "jazz" music hear him play. I only say this because I also have a few recordings from the late 70s when he did not sound that way. He was a good fusion player on both sax and flute then (his sax playing was modeled after the real "father of contemporary/smooth sax", Grover Washington, Jr). And even to this day, Kenny G is not on the musical level of Grover -- even though he may have reached more popularity and majority mainstream American populace acceptance than Grover ever did -- but, that's another issue in a context of its own. *I also do not believe that a comparison to David Sanborn is appropriate either. Sanborn is unique and did not copy anyone's style to make it "big" - does anybody remember "Double Vision" with Bob James?... Sanborn CAN play jazz straight up and has paid those necessary dues on his instrument. Sanborn will tell you that he does not consider himself a "jazz musician", although he can play in that tradition legitimately. I just don't think that Pat Metheny's remarks were necessarily an "elitist jazzer's" attitude. I think that Pat Metheny has a lot of respect for the musicians who really started and define the standards for the modern jazz we have today (Armstrong, Parker, Miles, Coltrane, Charlie Christian...). Like it or not, that is where the music comes from; and will always come from. You have to pay those dues first, before you call yourself an "innovative force in the music". Miles did; Herbie did; Chick did; Cannonball did; Benson did; Weather Report did; Yellowjackets did; Spyro Gyra did; Kenny Gorelick did not. I just think that it is ABOUT TIME that someone with the musical clout and credibility like "the" Pat Metheny, finally said something about the state of jazz in this context. Giving respect and credit where it is due to those masters who started it all; and, letting people know that so many of the popular high-profile musicians are not necessarily the one's who should be plastered everywhere. I don't think that the general listening public has to be fed a consistent diet of this "watered down" jazz on the scale that seems to be the trend over the last decade or so -- I thank Mr. Metheny for voicing that too in a sense. People can handle the more involved styles of jazz too and I wish that those in control of exposing such artists would WAKE UP and hear the music too. That's the only way more people will be able to speak for themselves - the people can't decide for themselves if the other styles of jazz are buried. Any form of serious art relies upon proficiency over popular-hype at some point. That's a junior-high school mentality, to like something because of the way the artist looks or gyrates on stage -- puuulleeeezzz... I don't "blame" Kenny Gorelick for his popularity; nor for taking advantage of it. Kenny G is really just another copycat who marketed himself well and filled a niche, (Boyz 2 Men = NSync; Jackson 5 = Osmonds; Grover Washington, Jr. = Kenny G) so what's new. A lot of people just get sick of seeing that type of thing go on and on. I also think most so-called "real jazzers/jazz fans" don't like it when people try to make it seem that artists like Kenny G are "all that". Just don't act like you invented what you are doing Kenny - and the same goes to his loyal fans! It just makes you think that whoever devises such marketing logic is truly far removed from the act of making this type of music; it's strictly about trying to exploit the tendencies of a large segment of society and make the largest amount of easy money... You can't fault/blame Kenny G personally for his success. And I don't think that many people really do in this sense. Hey, that is capitalism and it's cool! But, if you have any clue concerning this jazz music of ours, you can't honestly say that the "G-Man" is a musical "force" either... Peace, Chris Burnett http://www.mp3.com/4jazz

 

Date:	28-Jun-2000 19:29:41
From:	Michel Taillefer (mtaillefer@comnet.ca)
	I once heard Kenny G say in a interview that he practiced John Coltrane and Charlie Parker solos because he thought the solos were great technical exercises. What is worse, is that he saw the music only for that purpose. Right there, this tells you what kind of a person Kenny G really is and also how he is totally out of touch with jazz and more, with music all together. .....so in short i agree with Pat. I'm glad Pat talk about this because it is time for record compagnies, radio, tv and especially the public, to realize that integrity and honesty is important is all style of music (rock, jazz, folk, avant garde, country, bluegrass, blues, classical, opera ect..) and also, all other art forms. Be dance, visual art, theatre, film ect.... Right on Pat, Michel Taillefer, Canada

 

Date:	28-Jun-2000 19:48:46
From:	dg (duah@excite.com)
	I support Pat Metheny's comments 100%!!!

 

Date:	28-Jun-2000 20:41:47
From:	David Kelly (davidkelly@softhome.net)
	It’s ridiculous and incredibly unprofessional of Mr. Metheny to attack Kenny G in this fashion, I know Kenny G is the butt of many jokes and hated by many so called jazz purist’s, but with regard this tribute album what he seems to have missed completely is that as Kenny G out sells both Metheny and the great Louis's Armstrong, he could introduce a whole new audience to Louis's music. As Clapton did with the blues I’m must admit I’m not a great fan of Mentheny or Kenny G, but I respect them both as musicians and they are both good at what they do…. But Pat Mentheny has just gone down in my estimations… but then we all say stupid things at something, we just aren’t all quoted in public.

 

Date:	28-Jun-2000 21:20:18
From:	Brent
	I've been into jazz for about 45 years and I thought Pat's comments were way outa line. His downright rudeness is only exceeded by his stupid logic. Sure....G's music isn't for everyone....hell....some days when I get home from work I'm in a mood for Miles, other days it might be Wes Montgomery or Oscar Peterson.....on the other hand, there are days when I find "G's" music just about right! In reading all of the above comments one things certain....there's alot of folks out there who are just plain jealous of Kenny G's success and all that money he's making. I still have a fondness for Tommy Dorsey and Benny Goodman....they were considered smooth, non-progressive musicians in their day.....and Kenny G isn't much different today, except for all the hi-tech crap that we must contend with....even on some of Pat's tracks. Jazz is like "beauty"....its in the eyes of the beholder, that's what makes it fabulous and irreplacable. Pat's got a problem (whatever it is) and so the jerk needs to go out on a rampage and create some controversy so that his sagging popularity will get some sort of "jumpstart" on his next mediocre album. Do what ya "gotta" do, Pat.....enjoy it while you can....but....its not going to sell more of your CD's! I've got a few of your CD's and all I can say is "you're slipping, son"...maybe you ought to try politics since you're such a pro at sling'in mud!!

 

Date:	28-Jun-2000 22:27:08
From:	Joe G (joegold58@hotmail.com)
	I always enjoy taking the devil's advocate approach. If there's a market for the kind of music Kenny G performs, then he has every right to do what he wants. And even if there was no market or demand for what he does, then he STILL has every right. I don't have any Kenny G CD's, but one of his sidemen gave me a couple of tickets for one of his shows last year. I'll admit it really wasn't my cup of tea musically, but the musicianship in the band was top notch. (esp keyboardist Onaje Allen Gumbs) What really caught my attention was the crowd response. The audience was totally into it and having a great time. What's wrong with that?... I thought to myself, "good for Kenny G"! I actually enjoyed seeing all these people having a great time. I was watching the crowd probably more than the stage. It was fun! No, it was not "straight-ahead" stuff, but who says it has to be? (although, they did perform a small set of straight-ahead "ish" stuff with an upright bass, and much smaller set of drums) From a technical standpoint, the sound system was about the best I've heard at any live performance. Everyone has different tastes in music. You have folks who love Muzak to folks who love Roland Kirk. So we like what we like & the world goes on. What good does it do to put down Kenny G? Not everyone is going to like Coltrane & Miles. I don't think Kenny G claims he's playing jazz. It's instrumental pop with "hints" of jazz within. Kenny G is to "smooth jazz" what "N-Sync" & Brittany Spears are to "pop" music. Best, Joe G

 

Date:	29-Jun-2000 04:55:31
From:	jazzzluver
	hillary--- you r one crazzy lady. You should stop by a music store and pick up john scofields new cd or maybe dave weckls synergy. Pat is a hero to all jazz fans and a great musician as well.

 

Date:	29-Jun-2000 04:55:50
From:	arvind
	I think that kenny-G is great, I feel that he deserves every bit of success, he has worked hard and I think it's paid off. I believe that he should if anything inspire other young and upcoming musicians to work hard.

 

Date:	29-Jun-2000 05:59:08
From:	ron@whoneedsmailbombs.com (ron@whoneedsmailbombs.com)
	Bottom line: Play what ya wanna play and &^%$#@ the critics. Play on Kenny. My bet is Kenny G is a better guy to sit down and share a cuppa with than Pat--but all I have is quotes to go by. I could be wrong. Ron

 

Date:	30-Jun-2000 06:56:07
From:	ralph weedon (ralphweedon@hotmail.com)
	What I am hoping is this:- The phenomenon of Kenny "Gimp" is just another nightmare, and one day we will wake up and there will be no sign of him or his ghastly CD's... Ronnie Scott once said of Glenn Miller something like "it was a shame he died and that his music didn't". I quite agree. Let's all pray that KG's music does not live on. I once entered a phone-in quiz on London's Jazz FM back in the days when they actually played music, and was asked by presenter Jezz Nelson (now a BBC1 Tomorrow's world presenter) - "OK Ralph, difficult question coming up - this one's for 2 points and will take you into the lead:- ... (hushed silence... tension....) "Name me one good thing about Kenny G" .... long pause, while I thought....I thought and thought and thought. and then replied, thinking I was going to lose the points: "I can't actually think of anything nice to say about him." Jez: Correct answer, well done - two points.... Ironically these days this station does more to popularise bad music than even the rest of the dross-saturated drivel that saturates the UK FM dial. And that's what we are talking about - not jazz, or who's better than who, or whether Pat has a silly haircut as well (he does by the way), but good music vs. bad music. I hate labels, but I can't hear any musical content in poor old Kenny's misguided and embarrassing outbursts... I'm actually getting quite down just being constantly reminded that this stuff exists. It's bad enough switching on the radio without reading e-mails from so called fans of the "Gusset"... I am constantly amazed that people can have a strong positive response to something so bland and trite. What really gets me is that fans of the G take the position that any criticism is unjustified, unwarranted and unfair. Anybody that releases as many audio crimes against humanity as this weasily poodle should definitely be brought to heel by the jazz police. Having said that, us musicians, horrified by the success of some of the worst fusak of all time, should consider the fact that we could unwittingly be making a martyr of the man with no shame... ....this all reminds me of a general theme born out in Kurt Vonnegut's output as a novelist: "How does one remain sane in a world that has clearly gone mad?".

 

Date:	30-Jun-2000 11:06:21
From:	stokes (jstokes@onramp.net)
	kudus to methany for having the balls to say what many of us think, including ALL my acquaintances that know even the slightest about jazz, and what i have never seen a critic have the guts to say. Lambaste the likes of G and John Tesh, and the others that would pander to the mass without musical integrity. of course i have to laugh because you here these guys (and the pandering ladies like shania twain) all over the easy-listening and chick-station airwaves. so occasionally i have to ask myself, what the f**k do i know? then i turn up coltrane or miles and know i am right!

 

Date:	30-Jun-2000 14:22:40
From:	HOWARD B
	I believe that Metheny's comments were to harsh. I believe that many people will enjoy Kenny G's efforts. If so, that is one of the primary purposes of music - to provide enjoyment. As the old saying goes, different strokes for different folks. There are many types of music that provide enjoyment for their fans and crossover musicians are commonplace. If Pat Methany, whose music I personally enjoy, does not like Kenny G's overdubbing with Louis Armstrong he is entitled to his opinion. Since many others will enjoy the effort, it is, in my opinion a worthwhile endeavor.

 

Date:	30-Jun-2000 15:49:19
From:	oman (oman@pacifier.com)
	Who is it that is giving Kenny G the genre of Jazz? It really resides in the 'smooth pop' genre. What is up with the Radio Architecture's dominion? Remember, the issues to be really concerned about is: 1. Truthfulness 2. Authenticity 3. The application of points 1 and 2 to the uninitiated. With that said, there needs to be more air-time for the Real Thing and I do not see that happening very often from a 'commercialized' standpoint. So, how will we get this truth and authenticity to the masses? oman.

 

Date:	30-Jun-2000 19:13:03
From:	Rick Banales (riczen@hotmail.com)
	I was thinking that a lot of people who are posting here in defense of Kenny G may not know about the slew of recordings in Jazz that they might like, but have never gotten exposed to. Part of the problem with how Kenny has been marketed is that people think that they are hearing a "Jazz" record, when they are really listening to Easy Listening music. If you are curious about finding out what real jazz is like, I suggest you go on sites that have audio samples and try to hear just a little bit of each of these recommendations: Bill Evans-Sunday at the Village Vanguard Bill Evans with Toots Thielemans-Affinity Ben Webster-Jazz 'Round Midnight Jan Garbarek-Photo With Blue Sky Wes Montgomery-The Incredible... Stan Getz-Nobody Else But Me Sonny Criss-Complete Imperial Sessions Miles Davis-Kind of Blue Kevin Eubanks-Shadow Prophets Wynton Marsalis-J Mood -and if you're not too bruised: Pat Metheny-Still Life (Talking) I felt very comfortable recommending these albums-they are all very lyrical, accessable, and very much a part of the jazz continuum. I'm sure others out there will have other suggestions, I just hope that some people will take the time to listen to some of these works of art, and get a chance to dive headlong into checking out what jazz is really like. Thanks-Rick

 

Date:	30-Jun-2000 22:48:25
From:	Mike Eben (trane 1 2b@aol.com)
	I haven't read all the comments, but has anyone heard that Celine Dion recorded a track with Frank Sinatra...? Maybe she and G could hook up and teach us all what jazz really is (choke)

 

Date:	01-Jul-2000 03:00:05
From:	Steven S.
	"Real" jazz is, and will always be, music for musicians, and one thing that makes jazz so unique is the fact that only very few people out there actually "get" the music. That put aside, there's an ironic twist to all of this Jazz v. Smooth Jazz ruckus. Let's be sensible here for a moment...As a budding jazz pianist, I've grown to love jazz to its core, and I can admit that if I could, I'd be playing "real" jazz all the time...but then the money factor creeps in, and yes, we all need money. My point is, that I can remember a time very early in my piano life, that I was playing some of Kenny G's music at gigs, and making a lot of money doing it. Even though I didn't really care much for the music, it gave me money, and the means to buy the keyboard of my dreams, as well as the Jazz cds that would greatly influence me later...the bigger point you ask? Well, art can only truly be appreciated by artists, but money is what gives the artist the means to better express himself/herself. The irony is that even though the jazz community shuns Kenny G. for his pathetic exploits of the great Louis Armstrong, it should also be noted that with his popularity, Kenny G. has also brought much needed attention to Jazz as a whole. Think about it...a Kenny G. fan goes looking for one of his cds and comes across "some guy named Joshua Redman." "Well," says the ignorant fan in a rather doofy voice, "The cover says that he's a rising star in the Jazz world...maybe I should check it out." Ironic isn't it? If more people out there decided to check out a "real" jazz cd, Jazz would finally get the attention and honor that it deserves, but until that happens... let the musak play, so that jazz musicians can get their pay.

 

Date:	01-Jul-2000 14:05:21
From:	George
	Kenny G reminds of Al Jolson....singing MAMMY! 60 yrs. later! What a joke! Even white folks don't like him! Now that's bad....bad...bad...

 

Date:	01-Jul-2000 14:23:26
From:	Tabitha Elkins (tabithablue@yahoo.com)
	A while back, late at night, I had a crazy dream. I was in a little village in Germany where a Jazz Festival was being held. In my hand was a large manila envelope, containing a music chart covered with an invisible poison. My job, as emissary of the International Jazz Conspiracy to Kill Kenny G, was to deliver the envelope to Kenny G, who, after opening it up, would immedietly die. In my dream, the plan was successful, and I suddenly found myself summoned into the presence of God, who was seated on a white throne. God was pissed off. "I'm very dissapointed in you.", God said angrily, "Don't you know it's a sin to kill?" "But Lord," I sputtered,"Kenny G SUCKS! Everybody knows that!" "I know", God said, sighing, "But you still don't have a right to kill him. Besides, SOME people like his music, and it makes 'em happy. Now that you've killed him, all those people down there are crying." And I listened, and, sure enough, I heard the sound of people on Earth crying, and I started to feel ashamed of myself. "I'm sorry, Lord.", I said. God sighed again indulgently, and said,"For what you did, I ought to send you to hell, but I'm going to make you a deal. I'm giving you another chance. Here's what you have to do. You have to go backwards in time, and get the poison chart out of Kenny G's hands, and take the poison yourself. Then you will have redeemed yourself, and you can join me up here, instead of going down to that "other" place. "Okay, I'll do it", I said, feeling relieved. Next thing I know, I'm back down on Earth, running towards the little German village, trying to get there in time to get that envelope... then I woke up.(real dream-no shit) What does this mean? I don't know- that I have a deep-seated hatred of lousy music? that I secretly want to kill Kenny G? or that I shouldn't eat Mexican food before bedtime? I dunno- but I'm relived to find that I'm not the only one who feels disgust at the proliferation of pseudo-"jazz". Fortunately, much of the really putrid crap of today is destined to be forgotton tomorrow (to be replaced by other putrid crap). Keep playing REAL Jazz. #@&# Kenny G!

 

Date:	01-Jul-2000 14:25:41
From:	Rocco Bueti (RBueti@aol.com)
	I wouldn't be pulled in to a pointless debate over what jazz is unless I had just seen a performance by the PM-trio. Kenny G whiz should put out Kareoke records if he's going to steal from the dead like that. Jazz is to perform freely within some context, live as you can be in the moment. I'd rather listen to fledglings fight for the right note than something so creamy and polished as G-crap. The problem is the dead can't complain, but we can- Kenny G(raverobber) I saw Metheney his first year out kind of awful with a little too much newagey-chorus pedal sound which is what they love over at smoothworld and play adinfinitum to the tonedeaf. When I saw him about two months ago he was on an edge taking chances that I hadn't heard before from anyone else, that's what I can appreciate. But Pat lose that five necked monstrosity. They're celebrating Armstrong's 100th birthday everywhere this 4th of July, the best way is to listen to those moments for when they happened and not try to get to the Elvis impe

 

Date:	02-Jul-2000 12:06:53
From:	Arun Dias-Bandaranaike (arundb@lanka.ccom.lk)
	What an interesting set of exchanges! I confess that I am 'entering' at this point, somewhat 'ignorant' of Pat's peeves, save for what I have picked up from the 'thread'. It is a fact, that the marketplace that allows the Gorelick Kennomenon to flourish, has previously taken some of the venerated ones on occasion. Dash it! Even Pops went that way on occasion.( How else would you explain the "Wonderful World" thing?) One can also recall George Shearing, Nat Cole, Jonah Jones, and... wait for it, Dizzy THE Gillespie!(How many of you have heard the truly tasteless "Winchester Cathedral" that he recorded in the '60s; with him singing as well, badly?) The point is, there is a need for the muscular, truly improvisational hard swinging stuff to become more 'commonplace' and "familiar" to the smoothies, before the 'marketplace' changes the direction of its antenna. Then, and only then, will the Gorelick Kennomenon also change his chops and blow a mean stream in the main

 

Date:	02-Jul-2000 19:45:02
From:	jeff ruggles (oniongum@aol.com)
	i have been at the movies on two occasions, listening to "movietunes" play over the head speakers, when i have heard two completely blasphemous remarks: the first..."now here is soprano saxophone genius Kenny G." ...the second saying "here are the jazz trumpet genius Rick Braun and tenor master Boney James." it made me want to cry. the songs come on and you have nothing more than a r&b beat with two horns repeating the same line over and over. it seems to me to that this "jazz" is not about the music. it is about laying down smooth beats to get into the ladies pants. genius or master should never be used in the same sentence as any smooth jazz player. Maybe Kenny G was trying to do a good thing. i'm sure that it was in fact the record labels idea. but by doing for the money he is sacrificing jazz and it's art. Metheny should have said that, he was brave to have done so. I think Kenny G with his crimpped long hair was thinking "i'll update the song and make a few bucks." but, it is Louis Armstrong's "What a Wonderful World." it can't be updated. it is an impossibility. so well done to Pat Metheny who is still true to the art of jazz. and Fuck you to Kenny G and all you other smooth jazz players.

 

Date:	03-Jul-2000 01:23:02
From:	Steve
	It's one thing when a pop act like Kenny G disgraces a legend but I think it's even worse when a so called real "Jazz Artist" does it in order to get radio play on the smooth stations. Such as in the instance of Larry Coreyell with Wes Montgomery. Sad, Really Sad. Thanks to Pat for pointing that out as well.

 

Date:	03-Jul-2000 04:53:07
From:	Richard Baker
	Pat never got over the fact that Kenny recorded that duet album with Sinatra,And that Clinton invited him to the white house.Lets face it Pat he doesn't play jazz, but he jazzed your ass pretty good.Grow up..........

 

Date:	03-Jul-2000 12:28:55
From:	Judd Maynard
	Just to make a small point. I would suggest some of you going back to Kenny G,s work with the Jeff Lorber Fusion. He is a good musician and he plays very well with Jeff Lorber. i am not a Kenny G fan at least not any more,although I used to be.He has in the past played some excellent music i hope he returns to music he used to play although I am sur some of you will dismiss fusion as not really being jazz and the batt