Date:	29-Nov-2000 11:20:18
From:	Lawrence E. Tamanini (italam1@yahoo.com)
	I would include PAT MARTINO.No question about it!

 

Date:	30-Nov-2000 12:51:52
From:	adam
	Keith Jarrett-- probably the most spiritual and fiercely individual musician since Coltrane

 

Date:	30-Nov-2000 20:25:30
From:	Greg (gregkeyes@mediaone.net)
	John Mclaughlin. Its a shame he got ignored, besides the bitches brew cut

 

Date:	30-Nov-2000 22:50:21
From:	Roberta Arnold (jazz-baritonesax@att.net)
	I would include Ronnie Cuber because he is so totally devoted and comfortable playing jazz in every musical arena. From the time he entered the scene over 42 years ago at 14 to the Jazz Loft sessions to George Benson first quartet and beyond, he is a musician's musician with incredible musical taste in straightahead, blues, latin, r&b, or pop. He has made thousands of records in every genre never straying from his jazz routes.

 

Date:	01-Dec-2000 07:59:02
From:	Chris M. Slawecki (cslawec9@idt.net)
	There's obviously a lot of carry-over from previous decades with artists such as Miles, Dizzy, Monk, Mingus and so on. Pat Martino, Keith Jarrett and John McLaughlin are excellent choices! I would suggest Pat Metheny, Gary Burton, Jamaladeen Tacuuma (sp?), Jack DeJohnette, Donald Byrd...and I'm sure I'll be back with more!

 

Date:	01-Dec-2000 13:24:53
From:	Chris M. Slawecki (cslawec9@idt.net)
	Joe Zawinul, Joe Henderson, Wayne Shorter, Chick Corea...

 

Date:	01-Dec-2000 14:13:15
From:	Pat Webster
	I triple-dog dare Ken Burns to include Gil Scott-Heron singing "Ain't No New Thing". "..we use to having white people rob us. Why don't they steal some of this poverty.... We use to having white people rob us. It ain't no new thing". I am betting you will NOT hear this one!!! And I suggest anyone considering Ken Burns listen to this from start to finish for a real history of Jazz and for a shot of reality.

 

Date:	02-Dec-2000 21:37:59
From:	Sonya K.
	Julius Hemphill of the World Saxophone Quartet fame, and his own Sextet. Composer, arranger, and musician of the highest caliber.

 

Date:	05-Dec-2000 13:27:02
From:	Mimi Cooper (Miriam.Cooper@bet.net)
	I would definitely include Jaco Pastorius who revolutionized the way the bass is played and made Weather Report a super group. I would also include Arturo Sandoval, Marc Carey for a young up and coming lion, I would definitely include Chick Corea, AL Jarreau, George Duke, Stanley Clarke, Dianne Reeves, Rachelle Farrel, Gonzalo Rubalcaba, my list could go on and on... Certainly Herbie Hancock would be included as well as Ramsey Lewis, Grover Washington, Jr., et..all..

 

Date:	05-Dec-2000 14:06:02
From:	Steve K
	Burns shied away from post 60's because anyone trying to put together a cohesive sense of Jazz from the 60's will have a difficult time. There are so many genres and off0shoots. Nevertheless, I'll give it a try: Bill Evans, Herbie Hancock, Wayne Shorter, Tony Williams, Grant Green, Oliver Nelson, Keith Jarett, John McLaughlin, Joe Zawinul, Weather Report, AACM, Goerge Benson, Kenny Burrell, Eddie Harris, Jack DeJohnette, John Scofield, Stanley Turrentine, Arturo Sandoval, Danilo Perez, Cassandra Wilson, Particia Barber, Kurt Elling, Randy Brecker, Roy Hargrove, Christian mcBride, Nick Payton, all the Marsalis's.

 

Date:	05-Dec-2000 18:42:17
From:	tina (tinare@hotmail.com)
	Sonya: I'll add that Julius Hemphill was also one of the great bandleaders in the history of jazz. Great musician, bandleader, arranger, and composer!!

 

Date:	10-Dec-2000 21:09:36
From:	Alex
	Muhal Richard Abrams, Fred Anderson, Anthony Braxton, Peter Broetzmann, Evan Parker, Matthew Shipp, William Parker, Julius Hemphill, Hamiet Bluiett, Han Bennink, David Murray, David S. Ware, CECIL TAYLOR, ANDREW HILL, Larry Young, Don Pullen. You know, the greats who haven't managed to be canonized by Lincoln Center for some mysterious reason...

 

Date:	03-Jan-2001 20:50:23
From:	URJAZZ (wmcdade@mail.win.org)
	As a singer myself, I'd like to give a plug for some of the great singers that have become prominent since 1960 - the late greats Joe Williams & Eddie Jefferson , Dianne Schurr, Bobby McFerrin (only invented a new way to sing), the four talents in The Manhattan Transfer (their album "Vocalese" is an amazing accomplishment), and especially the greatest of them all, Jon Hendricks. Also, we could make a special category for people playing electric guitar, since it had such an impact on jazz post-1970 - Emily Remler, Mr.Metheny, Bill Frisell, Pat Martino, Mike Stern, John Scofield, Al DiMeola, Stanley Jordan, & I'd like to give a plug for Jeff Beck, of all people - during the 70's while Mahivishnu McLaughlin was making music that to me was mostly unlistenable, Beck teamed up w/ Jan Hammer & put out a couple of albums that were a lot more fun & a lot more melodic (hey avant-gardists - remember melody? - see Dexter Gordon, Mozart, etc.) than the Mahavishnu Orchestra. Other jazz musicians who've had a great impact since 1960 in no particular order (some of them got their start before 1960): Mingus (up to the day he died he made music), his drummer Dannie Richmond, Wes Montgomery, Jimmie Smith, Horace Silver (still cooking today), Les McCann, Mose Allison, nobody's mentioned three guys a hell of a lot more important than Anthony Braxton anyday - Eric Dolphy (!?), Rashan Roland Kirk (!!??), Sun Ra (!!!???); Freddie Hubbard, Lee Morgan, Thad Jones & Mel Lewis, the highly underrated Eliane Elias, Dexter Gordon if for nothing else than the singular accomplishment of the movie, "Round Midnight". Thanks - URJAZZ

 

Date:	05-Jan-2001 15:16:45
From:	Mark Romano (zouktime@aol.com)
	I would certainly include the great pianist, Bill Evans, who is NOT included in Ken Burns' Jazz. In 18 hours, one can include everyone, but excluding Bill Evans was a big mistake.

 

Date:	05-Jan-2001 15:28:03
From:	Mark Romano (zouktime@aol.com)
	In my last post, I meant to say one cannot include everyone in an 18 hour documentary. I understand that Mr. Marsalis and certain other members of the staff that put together this documentary wanted it to feature black musicians almost exclusively. I also understand that some African-American people involved with the project left after this agenda was pushed. I happen to agree with the fact that jazz is predominately an African-American cultural contribution. However, one cannot exclude exceptional white, blue or other color musicians like Bill Evans. The man recorded over 100 albums.

 

Date:	06-Jan-2001 17:39:43
From:	Tiki
	I received "Jazz: A History Of America's Music" by Geoffrey Ward and Ken Burns for Christmas. I was stunned to see full page color pictures of Wynton Marsalis and Joe Lovano - what a travesty. Wynton Marsalis, a second rate trumpet player, is the Madonna of jazz. He's an absolute genius of self-promotion and public relations. Joe Lovano is less offensive and less talented but ultimately you have to question the integrity of Ward and Burns - a good detective would say follow the money. Ken Burns and Geoffrey Ward have fallen a off dramatically in my book - so much for "history" in our Neo-Gilded Age.

 

Date:	06-Jan-2001 18:20:01
From:	Detective Tiki
	Marsalis records for Columbia. Lovano records for Verve. The following is a quote from Nils Jacobson's article on the Ken Burns Jazz section of this site: "In a truly multimedia marketing effort, the Jazz series will appear in coordination with a 512-page book by Burns and Geoffrey Ward, Jazz: An Illustrated History, in November--as well as a series of recordings on Columbia/Legacy & The Verve Music Group." Follow the money. Burns and Ward - that's history!! God save us.

 

Date:	08-Jan-2001 13:22:41
From:	Adam Lozo (adam@thecia.net)
	Okay, for sax players lets not forget Stan Getz & Steve Lacy. Both have unique sounds and styles and certainly created a lasting impact in the Jazz world. More recent additions to the list would have to include Michael Brecker for his prolific talent. And how about including the great Gary Burton. If he never recorded a single song, he still deserves a spot on the list for his contributions to Berklee and the talent that helped develop. (Libertango deserves a Grammy)! Who forgot to mention Roy Haynes? How about the Heath Brothers? Is avant jazz not considered real jazz? Clint Eastwood and Bill Cosby should also get a nod for their consistent marketing efforts. There are some 'young lions' and middle aged lions that are no brainers, already drawing large audiances and creating great music...Joshua Redmond, James Carter, Christian McBride, Russell Malone, Brain Blade, Brad Mehldau (sp?), Don Byron, Dave Douglas, Joey Baron, Kenny Barron, Cyrus Chestnut, Bela Fleck, Fred Hersch, Nicholas Payton, Greg Osby, Danilo Perez, & Steve Swallow. These guys (no women???) are all making a dramatic impact in today's music. There are more, I didn't list a single vocalist, who all contribute greatly to the music. I don't want to leave any of these people out, but feel that I've already taken up my alloted space on the web site.

 

Date:	08-Jan-2001 19:09:39
From:	Donna W. (donnaw@internet.com)
	If GEOFFREY WARD had any integrity, he would have withdrawn from the field and let it be what it is: "The Wynton Marsalis Show." It's NOT history. What would you call it - a docu-commercial? A self-promotion/pr film?

 

Date:	10-Jan-2001 12:07:54
From:	Louis D Palmbo (thevintageyears@aol.com)
	First, I would not, as Ken Burns most definitely is, be the mouthpiece for history revisionist, Wynton Marsalis....I would include the contributions of the creoles, the early europeans that settle in New Orleans....the great american brass bands, the white musicians, from Leon Rapollo to Bix Burns is not jazz history....it is a political statement..

 

Date:	11-Jan-2001 14:22:19
From:	Mark Romano (zouktime@aol.com)
	Well, it's the end of episode three of Ken Burns' Jazz. In the New York Times, Ken Burns' shamefully admitted that when he began this project six years ago, he had two jazz albums in his collection. The Times also has impressions of the series by musicians, former club owners, critics etc. There was much positive reaction but more negative reaction. Other blatant omissions, Erroll Garner, Keith Jarrett, Benny Carter, J.J. Johnson. The West Coast jazz scene. Where is that at ? On Bill Evans again, he played piano on all but one cut, I believe, of "Kind of Blue". This record has sold a few copies and only two books have been written about it. I don't think they could print what Miles would have said about that. It seems like it's the Wynton Marsalis-Stanley Crouch show. The only song that I have heard completely in the series so far has been "West End Blues". I don't want to hear all this talk. I hear enough everyday. I want to see and hear the bands and soloists. It's almost like being in a club where you want to yell "shut up!" But it's better than nothing. Someone in the Times said that it will sell more cd's, but will not bring people back into the clubs. Perhaps someone will fill in the gaps(and there are many of them) in Jazz II. God bless all those unrecognized soulful jazz artists who blew their hearts out and died young.

 

Date:	13-Jan-2001 00:59:16
From:	URJAZZ
	In my earlier comment, I mentioned Eliane Elias but forgot to mention a woman even more underrated - the great Carla Bley. Also, somehow completely forgot the most versatile bassist of the last 20 years, Charlie Haden (sorry, Charlie - we love ya!). After watching the 1st 3 episodes of "Jazz", don't the composers of all those great standards like Cole Porter & especially Gershwin get any credit? What would have the players played w/o the great body of standards created by the song writers? Gershwin was an incredible pianist & a great improvisor. Also, I don't mean to diss the great Louis at all, but I don't see how this "Jazz" movie can elevate him to a stature ABOVE Duke, Bird & Miles - to me, the four of them have equal stature as the greatest & most important jazz musicians in history. Louis really wasn't the composer that the other 3 were, & it was partly through their compositions that Duke, Bird & Miles made historic changes & advances in the music. Miles was the one who made more different kinds of jazz than anyone, & was in the forefront of every major movement inb jazz since 1941. Lastly, I can't agree w/ you more about the movie leaving out Bill Evans - what a shame, leaving out the man Miles said "plays colors". He can certainly be placed in the company of Bud Powell, Monk, Tatum, etc.

 

Date:	13-Jan-2001 07:52:44
From:	Jon
	GET A GRIP! Ten shows on national television featuring jazz! The visuals are fantastic and the it's a great intro to young kids, young musicians, and older folks who are curious. This is BAD? How much jazz is on TV? Now jazz is in fashion, and people ARE talking and arguing about it - could this be bad thing for jazz?? How many lives will be touched by footage of Armstrong and Ellington?

 

Date:	14-Jan-2001 15:17:16
From:	pg
	Johnny Mbizo Dyani, Paul Bley ,Wadada Leo Smith, Muhal Richard Abrams, Joe Harriott,Chris McGregor, Mongezi Feza, Louis Moholo, Dollar Brand, Brotherhood of Breath, Blue Notes, Anthony Braxton, Steve Lacy, Joe McPhee, Lol Coxhill, Evan Parker, Julius Hemphill, Roscoe Mitchell, Evan Parker, Peter Brötzmann, Derek Bailey, AMM, Han Bennink, Willem Breuker, Misha Mengelberg, Globe Unity Orchestra,

 

Date:	16-Jan-2001 23:34:56
From:	Jazz Bassist
	A few folks have mentioned Bill Evans, and they can't be more right on. His "Portrait in Jazz" and his playing on "Kind of Blue" have been *many* people's introduction to jazz. He was a brilliant artist and his tragic life of drug abuse paralleled many of the pre-60's artists, like Bird. And without mentioning Dexter in his Oscar-nominated role in "'Round Midnight", Burns misses yet another important event in jazz history. By the way, let's hope that if the Chet Baker story *is* made into a "major motion picture", they go with Brad Pitt and not with Leonardo DeCaprio (choices #2 and #1 as I read it a few months ago.)

 

Date:	17-Jan-2001 11:12:19
From:	Kim (kim100797@hotmail.com)
	Well, I would certainly include Gil Scott Heron, Teena Marie "I love "I'm Gonna Have My Cake and Eat IT, Too," Bob James, Ramsey Lewis, Ronnie Laws, Hubert Laws, David Sanborne, Jill Scott, Art Pepper, Randy Crawdford, Rachelle Ferrell,Donald Byrd, The Yellow Jackets, Natlie Cole, Grover, Manhatten Transfer, Nijee, Quincy Jones, Erica Badu, Joe Sample, did I say Gil Scott Heron? Noel Pointer, Rodney McCoy, Kenny Blake, Roger Humphries... I could go on, but I need to get back to work.

 

Date:	17-Jan-2001 17:33:52
From:	vimbuza
	Deffinately Kenny G, right Pat?

 

Date:	17-Jan-2001 19:36:10
From:	michael jackson (mjacks49@aol.com)
	cecil taylor,sun ra, albert ayler, eric dolphy yeah,winton's too much. but he seems to be both a knowing and loving commentator on the music of the jazz originators, Armstrong and Ellington particularly. Let's face it; jazz isn't the popular art form that it once was. Maybe again?

 

Date:	18-Jan-2001 14:39:43
From:	Kevin Quail (byas@home.com)
	Coltrane, of course. Bill Evans, Joe Henderson, Andrew Hill, Freddie Hubbard, Lee Morgan, Bobby Hutcherson, Billy Higgins, Cecil Taylor, Elvin Jones, George Coleman, McCoy Tyner, Keith Jarrett, Roy Haynes, Max Roach, Hal Crook, Charles McPherson, Frank Rosolino, Mingus, etc., etc., etc. One thing I cannot understand about Ken Burns' film is the elevation of Louis Armstrong to the most influential jazz musician of all time. By 1935, Armstrong's playing sounded dated while Bird sounds as fresh and new today as it did more than 50 years ago. And Ellington is America's greatest composer? Come on- the real genius behind Ellington was Billy Strayhorn. I thought everyone knew that by now. He wrote Lush Life when he was 17.

 

Date:	18-Jan-2001 17:27:47
From:	Bill Jarrett
	The great composer/theoretician/band leader, George Russell, who introduced modal palying, inspiring "Kind of Blue," and many of the trends in the music from the past 50 years. Also discovered Bill Eva

 

Date:	18-Jan-2001 17:28:39
From:	Bill Jarrett
	The great composer/theoretician/band leader, George Russell, who introduced modal palying, inspiring "Kind of Blue," and many of the trends in the music from the past 50 years. Also discovered Bill Eva

 

Date:	18-Jan-2001 20:24:56
From:	Joe (me2smile1)
	Ira Sullivan should be mentioned on any documetary on jazz. When Bird came to Chicago, it was Ira who Bird chose to play trumpet, and we should by now know that Ira is equally as proficient on saxophones. Other than Sonny Rollins, Ira is the best living contender for "legendary" status. Along with his five Grammy nominations, Ira continues to play on the level, only better, that I remember in the early 50's, in Chicago.It is time for us all to rally round Ira, he's the man....both musically, and as a human being.

 

Date:	21-Jan-2001 15:22:57
From:	Mahesh Shah (mahsh_7@hotmail.com)
	Miles Davis, Monk, Charles Mingus, Keith Jarret, john Mclaughlin, buena vista social club, jakir hussain...I love'em all...there are so many others...all of them fill your heart with ecstacy.... Mahesh

 

Date:	24-Jan-2001 11:43:59
From:	downstairs (streetwld@hotmail.com)
	after viewing the entire series, the cats from 1960 to the present that should have been mentioned are: Wes Montgomery, Oscar Peterson, Joe Henderson, Ramsey Lewis, Joe Zawinul, Arturo Sandoval, Ahmad Jamal, Errol Garner, Mccoy Tyner, Jimmy smith, Sun Ra, Freddie Hubbard, Stanley Jordan, Dollar Brand, Hugh Masekela, Paquito D'Rivera, Keith Jarrett, Grant Green, Billy Cobham, Wayne Shorter, Joe Pass, steve Gadd, man...there are so many that they should've put in the last segment....it's a shame that they left out Jaco Pastorius, Borther jack Mcduff, Lou Donaldson...... wynton is biased towards horn players and over looked pianists, drummers and guitar players...

 

Date:	26-Jan-2001 08:22:50
From:	Mimi
	Tiki, first of all you didn't answer the question at the top. But your comments were so intrigueing I had to comment on your comments... I have problems with your comments on the marketing effort put forth by Ken Burns & Company. Jazz has not had this much coverage in almost 50 years when Parker and Miles, Trane and Monk were the Madonnas & Ricky Martins of the day. Get over yourself Tiki, really, who says that Jazz musicians have to be poor and starving to be any good? Who are you to say that Jazz should not have the same marketing efforts attached to it as say a Madonna or a Ricky Martin???? As a great fan and lover of all things Jazz, I'm married to a musician who makes a decent living playing jazz as well as other forms of music, I named my son after Louis Armstrong, the ultimate definition of American music, last century's first international super star and I promote Jazz for a living.... I don't think that making money from doing something you love and are brilliant at should be a sin. WHat do you do and why the hell are you so bitter?

 

Date:	26-Jan-2001 08:51:05
From:	Mimi (Miriam.Cooper@bet.net)
	Mark Romano, you are absolutely right. I watched last night and they mentioned Bill Evans for 30 seconds and I truly agree with you. As a Latin-African American (good God I hate that terminology, I'm a black hispanic person) working for The Jazz Channel, BET's Jazz cable network and I know more than a few people who stayed on that job. As an aspiring documentary filmaker, working with Ken Burns would have been a treat as well as a great resume builder. I recognize the music as a universal art form open to anyone black white brown purple and of course blue! I think Ken Burns Jazz did a fabulous job of telling the most compelling stories. That was the focus when the material became too much to condense. Burns decided to focus on the stories of a few so that's why Bix Biederbeck made it in as opposed to Glen Miller or Artie Shaws story etc. etc. yes Bill Evans was a monumental contributor but maybe his story just didn't make the cut.

 

Date:	26-Jan-2001 15:05:25
From:	Andreas
	Some people like Bill Evans and Wayne Shorter are obvious candidates. I would also suggest Eric Dolphy and Rahsaan Roland Kirk. I also think that Abbey Lincoln and Betty Carter should be included as influential singers. Chick Corea is another obvious choice who should not have been omitted from the series. Also Jackie Mclean's Blue Note albums from the 60's are among the best music from that period. The impression I get (not having seen the corresponding episode yet) is that Ornette Coleman is treated as a lunatic fringe sideline, when in fact he was very influential not only to the free jazz and avant-guarde, which the Marsalis/Crouch/Lincoln Center axis convinced Burns (who admits that he didn't know his ass from his elbow concerning jazz before tackling the project)wasn't "real jazz", but also he was, with his bad Prime Time one of the originators of what is now called World Beat, making it easier for artists such as Fela Kuti to find an audience in the West. I also agree with the people who commented that jazz has now become a world phenomenon. Yes, the music obviously arose out of the African American comunity, and the most important figures at every stage of its development came from that community. Nevertheless its influence has spread far and wide. Jazz musicians have commented that it's sometimes been easier for them to get gigs in Europe than in the US. I travel to Brazil often and when I turn on the radio there most of the music I hear is somehow influenced by jazz (harmonies, chords, rythms) Someone else mentioned Astor Piazzolla, who is not a jazz musician himself. He synthesized traditional Tango with elements of classical and jazz, and is now in turn influencing those styles of music himself. His music was revolutionary and it's worth noting, in the context of this conversation, that Piazzolla's music was considered scandalous by the conservative tango estalishment. Prior to his arrival, tango in Argentina had become a museum piece with declining interest among young people. He helped spark renewed interest in both his music and the traditional styles, not to mention broadening its appeal worldwide. At every stage of its development, whether with swing, beebop, cool jazz, hardbop, avant-guarde, or (do I dare say the "F-word"?)fusion (yes, there's plenty of examples of crap, but also some good stuff), the music was given a charge from influences outside of the current mainstream, and there where always disgruntled old fogies who didn't like the new stuff. The Lincoln Center crowd claim to be saviours of "true jazz". I would propose that jazz is more likely to be found in the small hole-in-the-wall joints in Liemert Park or the Village than among the stuffed shirts of Lincoln Center (where only an elite can even afford the ticket prices). Left to their devices, this crowd will ensure that jazz does in fact become a historical artifact (as it is presented by Ken Burns). Cassandra Wilson once said in a TV interview that she is very concerned that jazz was becoming relegated to some ivory tower. That is what most concerns me about the message of the Ken Burns series. It seems to suggest that jazz is a thing that happened in the first half of the 20th century and that is now history - that it's now finished. While the series does seem to have caught the attention of people who never were interested in jazz previously (some of them hopefully will stay interested), the series will not encourage them to look at jazz as a living evolving thing. Any creative force needs to evolve to survive. While I enjoy the music of many of the current "young lions" such as Christian McBride and Roy Hargrove, it does beg the question "where is this going"? The music is basically a throwback to 1963. There was a lot of great music then, but it's not a healthy situation. Unfortunately the public at large is basicaly presented with either jazz as a museum piece or with comercial crap which doesn't even have the spirit of improvisiation and inovation of jazz (an un-mentionable character whose name includes a "G" comes to mind).

 

Date:	26-Jan-2001 16:49:59
From:	Andreas
	I guess I went off on a bit of a rant! Sorry!

 

Date:	26-Jan-2001 16:55:50
From:	Scott Vander Werf (vanders@gvsu.edu)
	Dolphy, Ayler, Sun Ra, the ESP catalog, along w/Trane, Cecil,Ornette, for the influence they had upon Roscoe Mitchell, Braxton, Abrams, the AACM; the early European free improvisors(Derek, Evan, Brotzmann, etc.) because of the cultural/cross-over of the music; Julius Hemphill, Henry Threadgill, Edward Wilkerson Jr., for their advancements in composition in the Ellington/Mingus continuum; Woody Shaw, Sphere, Bobby Watson, Billy Harper, Joe Henderson, David Murray, as purveyors of modern acoustic jazz, that boils with the energy of 60's/70's aesthetics; Zorn, Frisell, Dave Douglas, and others related to the NYC downtown scene; Gayle, Ware, Shipp, Crispell, William Parker, as torch bearers for a modern free jazz; and the current Chicago scene, Fred Anderson, VanderMark, 8 Bold Souls, and ever youthful Von Freeman, for the vitality and variety alive in the Windy City.

 

Date:	27-Jan-2001 03:26:38
From:	J. Stevens (jaymusic67879@yahoo.com)
	I appreciated reading all the people here who mentioned the slight of BILL EVANS in Burn's "JAZZ". Any jazz history (except Stanley Crouch) mentions Bill as the NEXT major jazz piano innovator after Bud Powell. Neglecting his contributions would be like as if his BASEBALL documentary didn't give Mickey Mantle his due. It just isn't done. Without Evans, there'd BE no Herbie, or Chick or Jarrett or Zawinul or Petrucciani or Lyle Mays, etc. J. Stevens - THE BILL EVANS WEBPAGES -- www.njmetronet.com/bille

 

Date:	27-Jan-2001 03:28:29
From:	J. Stevens
	I appreciated reading all the people here who mentioned the slight of BILL EVANS in Burn's "JAZZ". Any jazz history (except Stanley Crouch) mentions Bill as the NEXT major jazz piano innovator after Bud Powell. Neglecting his contributions would be like as if his BASEBALL documentary didn't give Mickey Mantle his due. It just isn't done. Without Evans, there'd BE no Herbie, or Chick or Jarrett or Zawinul or Petrucciani or Lyle Mays, etc. THE BILL EVANS WEBPAGES -- www.njmetronet.com/billevans

 

Date:	30-Jan-2001 09:00:50
From:	ras f (field@oceana.net)
	An entire episode on the AACM, past to present to future. An entire episode on the NYC loft scene to "downtown". An entire episode on why "fusion" failed but featuring musicians who actually made worthy "fusion", i.e., Miles, Tony Williams, McLaughlin, some Weather Report. An entire episode dissing the likes of Kenny & Na G(jee), and most of the so-called "contemporary" crap. I have to admit that I was ready to dis Wynton but his knowledge and enthusiam have won me over. Burn's film has glaring and inexcusable gaps, BUT it's better than nothing, and it certainly has people in the jazz community talking and hopefully bringing in new fans.

 

Date:	30-Jan-2001 20:35:01
From:	Jerry (jerrylev@adelphia.net)
	Many contemporary fans, from hardcore bopheads and conservative traditionalists (like Crouch) to modern avant-gardists might want to overlook a part of jazz history that Ken Burns also gave short shrift to, which is soul-jazz and the evolution of artists like George Benson from that arena into the development of smooth jazz. From "Groove" Holmes hit version of "Misty" to Benson's cover of "This Masquerade", these stylists kept jazz elements within the realms of popular aesthetics throughout the 1960's and 1970's. The Crusaders also hit the pop charts with "Spiral" in the 1970's, with one of Larry Carlton's liquid fire solos that sparked so many Steely Dan chart successes. Wayne Shorter's solo on "Aja" charmed millions, most of whom probably didn't even realize they were listening to music that was largely jazz! Joe Zawinul's "Birdland" made Weather Report a household name, and Wayne helped a lot on that, as well. Al DiMeola, Chick Corea, Herbie Hancock, John McLaughlin, Billy Cobham, and Jean-Luc Ponty also made significant impressions in the fusion era and beyond with experiments with techno and world music. Of course, general popularity does not indicate which artist is the most innovative or influential upon other artists, but Jazz not only survived beyond 1960 but continued to influence popular American music, even after Jazz itself was no longer what kids were dancing to.

 

Date:	01-Feb-2001 09:52:30
From:	Mark Romano (zouktime@earthlink.net)
	After viewing the whole series, I have to say, despite the blatant omissions, it was good for jazz. The series will, I hope, introduce listeners to new artists or to artists they have only heard of in passing. However, it is the music that should have done the talking not the talking heads that continually popped up just when you wanted to listen to that band swingin' or when The Prez or Ben Webster were blowin'. I learned much from the series and I will buy more music of the artists where my collection is thin.

 

Date:	01-Feb-2001 09:56:28
From:	Mark Romano (zouktime@aol.com)
	Mimi, forgot to mention your comment. keep on and you will make that documentary. how about more african and french antillean zouk on BET ? i think it might make some noise. best of fortune to you the film world.

 

Date:	01-Feb-2001 16:17:42
From:	Mike (winn@goodnet.com)
	Having been tuned in to jazz for nearly fifty years here's my two cents for musicians who should have been mentioned. In addition to the many musicians previously mentioned may I add Anita O'day who still influences vcalists to this day. Also,(no flames) how about Stan Kenton? Like his somewhat pompus stye or not, his band was a training ground for more fine jazz musicians than I can mention here and his influence lasted decades.

 

Date:	01-Feb-2001 21:51:25
From:	Tiki
	Mimi: Why do you personalize everything? Great that some jazz musicians are making money - do you really think that bothers me? Where did you get that? If anything it sounds like you're a trying to justify something to yourself that you are uncomfortable with. Just because I point out the money connections and the fact that Marsalis and Lovano are over promoted I am bitter? What is your problem? Or rather what are you so uncomfortable about - did I hit a raw nerve here? Now let me guess . . .

 

Date:	01-Feb-2001 23:22:21
From:	Canuckteach (canuckteach@jazzreview.com)
	ok-did anyone mention Diana Krall? she has made jazz kool and, for the first time in years, someone attracted younger mainstream listeners to jazz.. that's significant! and she is mixing older classics with new compositions.. (hey--maybe you don't like her, but Ray Brown does.. and her music makes your feet tap.. so Louis would like her, too) last year, she won 1 (or 2?) Grammy(s) for her work on the CD "When I look in your eyes" - her CD's swing, her piano playin is hot, she's blond, she's kool, and her vocals are improving (and she's Canadian - about time we contributed something other than real mean hockey players) - Burns keeps talkin about how jazz re-invents itself and will go on--well, Krall sold a ton of jazz CD's to younger kids who have been looking for real music to buy. that's new and I think he should have mentioned this. in the past, other jazz artists were just 'starting out' and garnering attention, right? few suspected at the time how popular Duke or Benny would be. so, Ken could have mentioned Diana Krall's work - and in 5 years, when we watch the documentary again, we can see how she did in the interval. going back to the issue of the who (else) to include since sixties? Oscar Peterson and the trio, the guitar players [Kenny Burrel, Wes Montgomery, (any)Pizzarelli], Randy Sandke.. some older artists were (or are) goin strong: Buck Clayton, Vic Dickinson, Bobby Hackett (Roosevelt Grill-remember?), Ruby Braff, and Stephane Grappelli.. and, they were (or are) playing mostly the standards.. that being the case, why not cover it? it's not like jazz died with avant-garde and fusion.. the great artists found ready listeners in Europe when things slowed down here.. oh well - if you want more, I have catalogues of unbelievable jazz from the 60's on from Mosaic Records.. Ken should have browsed some discographies more carefully, I think..

 

Date:	02-Feb-2001 14:09:48
From:	Andreas
	Hey Canuckteach, Oscar Peterson is another one of your Canadian homies - born in Montreal. Thought you might like to know.

 

Date:	02-Feb-2001 16:49:49
From:	Gordon Clark (gman@scientist.com)
	Rahsaan Roland Kirk! I wish HE could have narrated and guided the KB show! Among the others mentioned above, I would include James Blood Ulmer, the World Saxophone Quartet(and all its members), Cecil Taylor, Ornette, Art Ensemble of Chicago, Sun Ra, Trane, Miles,......many others! I can't help feeling sad the way the show has driven a wedge into the generation gap. Sadly, the younger generation doesn't know what it is missing, since they are seeing the greatness which is included, something much better than the usual TV. We old geezers are bitter that the last 40 years are shortchanged, since we know that some incredibly creative music happened, and a musical revolution like that probably will never happen again. There was no disconnect between Miles' fusion and jazz history, but it took a leap to follow it. No matter how well WM can play or how much history he knows, he simply cannot follow, so he retreats into the past. I also understand that WM and Miles were not friends. But that brings another thing I don't like about the show up: it's too much about personalities, and seeks to amplify the "character flaws" of the musicians. Perhaps that's Wynton's problem: he's too good. He probably doesn't drink, smoke, dope, or fool around. Maybe this is a good thing, to keep a new generation of musicians clean. But if this means being some kind of Mormon Tabernacle choir, instead of crazy, daring, iconoclastic, exciting, well, like life, there are no simple answers. All I know is WM bores me, terrifically too, and his smug, know-it-all attitude makes me want to smack my TV every time he appears.

 

Date:	03-Feb-2001 08:16:41
From:	Holly (hollyh@hotmail.com)
	Parker,Trane and Miles etc. the Madonnas and Ricky Martins of their day????? What planet was this on??? So much for history!! (As if publicity equals talent and accomplishment!!)

 

Date:	04-Feb-2001 20:19:30
From:	Mimi (miriam.cooper@bet.net)
	Tiki, I think you're really personalizing but that's neither here nor there. Your comments sounded bitter. That's all, also you didn't answer the question to post on this page... So you can e-mail or comment on another appropriate page so I won't take up space. And Holly in Music circles in the 50's and 60's it was Mile and Trane, Monk and Dizzy that were the super stars like Madonna and Martin are... That's all I meant. Mimi

 

Date:	05-Feb-2001 03:25:00
From:	ALLMUSICFAN
	The ommission of Nina Simone struck me as particularly glaring. Sure she was adept at telling her story in various 'genres' but some of her recordings in a jazz vein are among the most memorable ever put on tape. Her improvising on THE definitive version of "Love Me or Leave Me" is one of the most glorious moments in recorded music. And as a vocalist, her early recordings exhibit a marvelous and completely unique style of singing. Though so many of the great innovators and masters of "Jazz" and other equally important genres were african-american, I am still put off by the strange notion that this improvisational music came to exist in a racial vacuum. Surely improvisational music existed long before musicians began exploring its possibilities in New Orleans. Any number of SOuth American or European folk music existing prior to the twentieth century could be construed as an early form of Jazz (i.e. Irish fiddle music). And Klezmer. What's that, if it ain't some early form of Jazz like improvisation around folk melodies? While no one can deny that most of the greatest achievers and innovators in Jazz and many another American music in the twentieth century were African-American, the idea that this improvisational art is the solitary creation of people of color is a lot of hysterical nonsense. Human beings influence one another, regardless of their color. Don't buy into the crap preached by Gil Scott and others that white musicians are of a kind guilty of theft. We all influence each other.

 

Date:	09-Feb-2001 19:57:17
From:	Holly
	Mimi: Coltrane, Monk and the like were never the banal superstars that Madonna and Ricky Martin are. There's no need to cheapen great musicians to defend yourself.

 

Date:	20-Feb-2001 21:00:03
From:	RiverMc
	Until I read the wealth of posts, regarding the "theft by the white man" type of comment, I was going to talk about jazz, which I happen to love. Now, I just want to ask a question : Are any of us ever going to "just be Americans" ? Even though my ancestors were thrown out of Ireland, for being broke, then, found themselves sitting on a ship, because,( and, this is historical fact, you can look it up ) they were the only ethnic group ever denied, for a time, entrance to this country, I don't call myself Irish-American. Never been there. I'm an American. period.

 

Date:	21-Feb-2001 21:43:35
From:	Bob Tuba
	I really wish I was black or latino or a woman - then I'd always have an excuse for everything and I'd never have to look honestly in the mirror.

 

Date:	22-Feb-2001 18:31:22
From:	Andreas
	There are surgeons that can help you with that problem, though perhaps you should consult a psychiatrist first.

 

Date:	22-Feb-2001 20:13:34
From:	Andreas
	I have an idea - let's talk about jazz, whaddaya say?

 

Date:	04-Mar-2001 05:22:43
From:	Michael (satinjacob@aol.com@aol.com)
	Is it significant that this forum on jazz documentaries has reduced itself to bantering back and forth about Ricky Martin and Madonna? Back to the Ken Burns issue..is anyone familiar with the completely signature influence of Billy Strayhorn on not only Duke Ellington's sound but all of "commercial" music? He revolutionized the arranger's role in respect to the " Pied Piper " magnetism associated with style and created emotionally powerful formulas used by composers to enable the listener to identify and recognize. While pop music utilizes these tools in a very primitive fashion, it was Mr. Strayhorn's genius that catapulted jazz back to the mainstream..pop, films, advertising, and, finally,jazz itself..will he go down in history as Duke's hired gun or one of the greatest composers of all time?..check out " Bloodcount " ..written as he lay dying of cancer..Ken Burns surely will get kicked around as will Wynton and others, but we're a lot richer for their efforts than the day before the series aired..stop griping and sniping and contribute constructively, please..

 

Date:	04-Mar-2001 05:28:16
From:	Michael (satinjacob@aol.com)
	In response to ALLMUSICFAN : AMEN

 

Date:	04-Mar-2001 14:18:16
From:	Michael (satinjacob@aol.com)
	..adding to Mike's contribution..Anita O'Day's version of " You Don't Know What Love Is " could have easily served the entire community with a performance of a jazz ballad as close to perfection as their is..Stan Kenton? represents for me the sole reason incredible instrumentalists were offered the opportunity to move jazz from a big band swing sound of the 40's ( where it was pretty much left to die due to financial burden )to the massive sound of the 50's.. and serve as a mountainesque backdrop for soloing giants like trombonist Frank Rosolino and trumpeter Maynard Ferguson..and so many more...

 

Date:	04-Mar-2001 14:31:19
From:	Michael (satinjacob@aol.com)
	my response to Gordon's need for romancing self-destructive behavior in musicians..I am a performing trombonist for 44 years now, I'm sober and clean for 12 years..from age 15 to 39 I drank folks ( with your dream )under the table, I smoked all their dope and messed around with their wives on the way out of town..it did nothing for my ability to play competently..it ruined it. I ruined it. I applaud Dizzy for having dropped anything resembling this lifestyle ( if in fact, he ever really sank to my depths, even momentarily ), and bringing jazz to the classroom at full gallup. It is heavy music, baby, it belongs in the hands of dedicated disciples, not wannabes..Thank goodness, we have in Diz' footsteps, Wynton Marsalis to carry on the Crusade..time for us to grow up, my friend..

 

Date:	06-Mar-2001 09:58:28
From:	aldo
	Why do ex-drunks/druggies have such a need to parade their miserable pasts in public? I know this is rude to be so blunt, but it is pathetic. Grow up?

 

Date:	15-Mar-2001 06:35:14
From:	hollyh@hotmail.com
	I think Chick Corea has been so good for so long that he's taken for granted. All the different styles and different successes he's had - one of the greats. I'd include him.

 

Date:	15-Mar-2001 17:36:16
From:	Wes Newmann (wesnew@internetwis.com)
	Chick Corea Dave Holland Jackie DeJohnette Anthony Braxton Muhal Richard Abrams Richard Davis Steve Lacy Mal Waldron Kenny Barron Paul Motian Paul Bley Gary Peacock Buster Williams Bill Frisell Charlie Haden Billy Higgins David Murray Julius Hemphill Hamiet Bluitt Oliver Lake Marty Ehrlich Bakida Carroll Abdul Wadud Lester Bowie

 

Date:	21-Mar-2001 20:23:39
From:	Scott Foster
	I would emphasize the two biggest stories in post-1960 jazz. First, the giant step forward of Coltrane, Ornette, and Cecil. Those three people dominate that story. Ken Burns treated Coltrane pretty well in his film but neglected to showcase the very end of his career and life when he was moving into yet another new phase. ("Interstellar Space.") Ornette was treated politely in the film but did not receive any follow-up after his late-fifties arrival on the scene. His Prime Time bands are extremely important in jazz history, but they received exactly zero coverage in the film. Cecil was treated the worst of the three, I'm sure you all know what I'm talking about there. The second big story was the fusion movement. Miles, Tony Williams Lifetime, Weather Report, Mahavishnu, Hancock and Corea would dominate that part. I think the single worst thing about the Ken Burns film was that he basically ignored the role fusion played in expanding the audience for jazz, the effects of which are felt to this day. Wynton Marsalis' own popularity is due in no small part to the fusion movement's gathering of forces into the jazz tent. The Mahavishnu Orchestra bridged the gap between rock and jazz perfectly. Kids who were listening to King Crimson got on that bridge, walked across and discovered Dexter Gordon making his comeback from Europe (all of this was well-coordinated by Columbia Records, by the way.) Fusion audiences later were attracted to acoustic projects by ex-Miles sidemen which, lest we forget, introduced the world to a raw Wynton Marsalis, who then bit the hand that fed him. A third big story would be all this contentiousness starting in the eighties when Wynton started his own movement and through massive exposure in interviews sought to deny the artistic validity of the avant-garde and fusion. Someone in this thread wrote that all this splintering of jazz camps makes the post-1960 story difficult to tell cohesively, but that writer is missing the point: this splintering is an important story in and of itself. A fair film would not simply take this pro-avant-garde and pro-fusion viewpoint and use it to trash Marsalis, however. One would have to acknowledge that Marsalis is a really good player and composer. Marsalis is a fairly important piece of the puzzle. It's just that his importance is not nearly what Ken Burns believed it to be when Marsalis gave Burns his crash course in jazz history. It was sort of like Dick Cheney leading Bush' vice presidenti

 

Date:	23-Mar-2001 17:03:39
From:	Scott Foster
	Finishing that last thought: Wynton advising Ken Burns on jazz history and then emerging as one of its principal stars was like Dick Cheney leading Bush' vice presidential search process and then recommending himself for the job. .....................................

 

Date:	10-Apr-2001 16:25:37
From:	bob dole
	fuck you

 

Date:	14-Apr-2001 00:46:36
From:	Helen
	I'd include Gil Evans, George Russell, and Gerry Mulligan because they were composers/arrangers who made everyone who played their music/work sound great.

 

Date:	28-Jun-2001 16:15:47
From:	Zando Parmizzi
	Speaking of arrangers, I'd add Tadd Dameron and Claire Fischer to Helen's list.

 

Date:	21-Jul-2001 23:32:11
From:	Daniel J. Loeb (tmonk22@yahoo.com)
	Miles Davis, Wayne Shorter, Cotlrane, Herbie Hancock, Dexter Gordon, Bill Evans, Jaco, JOE HENDERSON, Chick Corea, Cecil Taylor, Sun Ra, Ornette Coleman, Larry Young, Pat Martino (No question about it! --L.T.) Pat Metheney, Jack DeJonette, Charlie Haden, Christian McBride, Anthony Braxton, Tony Williams, Dave Holland, Kenny Garrett, 'Tain' Watts, Steve Coleman, Jerry Garcia (though his music was MAINLY not jazz, he did influence it a lot), and Ben Schachter. I'd also include a lot of non jazz musicians who I feel influenced jazz for the better significantly. Of those, the first to come to mind would be hip hop artists, The Roots, and Black Sheep (even though most people don't take them seriously. Check out "A Wolf IN Sheeps Clothing.")

 

Date:	31-Jul-2001 14:31:33
From:	David Tyrell
	A few comments above, Wes Newmann's, there's a long list of musicians. I don't think Wynton Marsalis belongs in that bunch as a creative musician. He does have technique to burn but so do many on that list and all are far more creative and vital musicians.

 

Date:	10-Aug-2001 21:05:07
From:	Bob
	Enough of Marsalis! Let him drift off into obscurity. There are great musicians out there who are getting very little attention.

 

Date:	11-Aug-2001 19:51:21
From:	Joe
	I would include the brazilians: Egberto Gismonti, Hermeto Pascoal, Nana Vasconcelos and Airto Moreira. And also Ralph Towner.

 

Date:	29-Aug-2001 15:51:25
From:	Catherine (unicorn11000@compuserve.de)
	I'd include all the unsung heros who kept/keep the live jazz scene on its feet and are still doing so today. It isn't only about those who 'made it', it's about those who lend their creativity to the 'man in the street' unselfishly and normally for a pitance. I've just completed a digital documentary on the 'Downtown Manhattan Jazz Loft scene of the 60s and 70s' and would be greateful for any tip, contacts regarding financing/purchasing prior to editing. Please contact me for further info./treatment/completed interview list.

 

Date:	12-Oct-2001 19:55:35
From:	EMIL TERSARINI & THE JAZZ GANG
	THANK YOU, URJAZZ, WHO WROTE IN JANUARY OF THIS YEAR AND WHO WISELY LEFT OFF DIANA KRALL. WE ARE SO TIRED OF HEARING PROMOTERS AND OTHERS WHO OBVIOUSLY WOULDN'T KNOW GOOD VOCALIZING IF IT JUMPED UP AND BIT THEM, LAUD THAT SO-CALLED JAZZ SINGER. SHE PLAYS WELL, BUT THAT'S ABOUT IT. THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU.

 

Date:	12-Oct-2001 20:02:45
From:	EMIL TERSARINI & THE JAZZ GANG
	THANK YOU, URJAZZ, WHO WROTE IN JANUARY OF THIS YEAR AND WHO WISELY LEFT OFF DIANA KRALL. WE ARE SO TIRED OF HEARING PROMOTERS AND OTHERS WHO OBVIOUSLY WOULDN'T KNOW GOOD VOCALIZING IF IT JUMPED UP AND BIT THEM, LAUD THAT SO-CALLED JAZZ SINGER. SHE PLAYS WELL, BUT THAT'S ABOUT IT. THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU.

 

Date:	12-Oct-2001 20:05:33
From:	EMIL TERSARINI & THE JAZZ GANG
	THANK YOU, URJAZZ, WHO WROTE IN JANUARY OF THIS YEAR AND WHO WISELY LEFT OFF DIANA KRALL. WE ARE SO TIRED OF HEARING PROMOTERS AND OTHERS WHO OBVIOUSLY WOULDN'T KNOW GOOD VOCALIZING IF IT JUMPED UP AND BIT THEM, LAUD THAT SO-CALLED JAZZ SINGER. SHE PLAYS WELL, BUT THAT'S ABOUT IT. THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU.

 

Date:	17-Oct-2001 12:38:49
From:	Dane
	Who would I include? I think Diana Krall would be a good candidate.

 

Date:	17-Oct-2001 12:41:37
From:	wilson (wilsonr@hotmail.com)
	How about the jazz singer Diana Krall? Why? - because she's a good singer and plays good piano too.