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Steve Kuhn: Shimmering Beauty

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I was told a long time ago by somebody whose opinion I really respected that if you listen to all the great classical composers, they all were great melody writers.
This interview, originally published on March 2, 2009, is being reprinted to coincide with the release of Steve Kuhn's Mostly Coltrane (ECM, 2009).



Whether it is in his trio, collaborating with vocalists or accompanying an orchestra, pianist Steve Kuhn has always managed to effortlessly defy and combine genres. Whether it is an older recording or one of his newer albums, an inherent ability to create melodic-based beauty makes his playing and compositions instantly identifiable.

Chapter Index

  1. Studies
  2. Post Graduate
  3. Standards and Beyond
  4. Writing
  5. Songs Revisited
  6. Lyrics
  7. Technology
  8. October Suite
  9. Promises Kept
  10. Classical Inflections
  11. ECM and Dream Projects



Studies

Steve Kuhn All About Jazz: In your early years you studied under Madame Magaret Chaloff. Was your instruction geared towards playing and composition?

Steve Kuhn: No just piano technique; classical repertoire. I started when I was five years old but I met her when I was twelve; so I had studied [piano] for seven years. When I met her I had to unlearn things that I had learned the first seven years because she taught me the Russian school of technique. Basically enabled me to do pretty much whatever I wanted to do dynamically, or in terms of speed and getting a sound out of the instrument.

I really had to rethink everything and start almost from scratch when I started studying with her. She was really the seminal force in my life in terms of teachers and also she was a surrogate mother; very important in my life.

AAJ: Were you her only famous student?

SK: I don't know. I think there were a number of pianists who studied, not as long as I did but studied with her. I think Keith Jarrett

Keith Jarrett
Keith Jarrett
b.1945
piano
had some interaction with her at some point; as did Chick Corea
Chick Corea
Chick Corea
b.1941
piano
, because they were up in Boston.



What would happen is when different groups would be appearing in Boston for a week. Usually the pianists in the group, who knew of her and because her son was Serge Charloff the well-known baritone saxophonist, would come and visit with her. She would just listen to them play and give them some suggestions; but they didn't study with her formally. I know George Shearing

George Shearing
George Shearing
1919 - 2011
piano
, Oscar Peterson
Oscar Peterson
Oscar Peterson
1925 - 2007
piano
...a bunch of people and she always had some suggestions to make.



The only pianist who ever came to her just for a visit and played for her and she said "Get out of here. I have nothing I can show you," was Red Garland

Red Garland
Red Garland
1923 - 1984
piano
. That's because Red, not exactly the most creative pianist in the history of the music, but he had a touch. His touch was like, as she described it, a ball bouncing over the keys. It was absolutely perfect. For what he did it was exceptional. And she said "I really can show you anything or tell you anything."

AAJ: You received a music degree from Harvard was their an immediacy to the effect these studies had on your art or professional ambitions?

SK: I received a BA. It was just in liberal arts. I majored in music which didn't amount to much over the four years. I didn't go there for the music. I went there, was fortunate enough to get in and I got a liberal arts degree. I studied a lot of different kinds of things. Music was really not the reason I went. But every undergraduate had to major in something so I chose music theory which was four theory courses and two music history courses. So it was six courses in all over the four year period. That's really all it amounted to.

Steve KuhnPlus the fact that the music department at that time with the exception of Walter Piston with whom I enjoyed studying for one year; everybody else in the department, really for them music stopped after Stravinsky. They didn't really recognize any of the more contemporary stuff. Jazz, they thought, was the absolute worst thing you could possibly do. So I was the black sheep in the department for those four years; with the exception of Walter Piston, who was very relaxed.



I studied techniques of twentieth century composition with him for a year. Which was very informative and he was very easy to deal with. No bias on his part. Of course his compositions, he was certainly influenced by jazz. So we had a nice time.

AAJ: Initially, did either gigging or your studies play a more important part in your creative process or artistic identity at this time?

SK: I would say both. I was working through Harvard and I was working practically working, almost ever night. I had a trio and we opened at a coffee shop in Harvard Square. We were the house trio. We played as a trio for the most part. And then we would be hired occasionally by different people who were coming through single, like Coleman Hawkins

Coleman Hawkins
Coleman Hawkins
1904 - 1969
sax, tenor
or Chet Baker
Chet Baker
Chet Baker
1929 - 1988
trumpet
and they would need a rhythm section. So they would hire us as a trio. It was quite an education for us. So I was working a lot and doing as much studying as I possibly could, considering that I needed to sleep as well. It was always a conflict.

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Post Graduate

AAJ: Post graduate, you were able to continue your studies when you won a Schaefer Beer scholarship to study at the Lennox School of Jazz. How did this differ from your previous academics?

SK: Yeah that was a three week thing in the summer of '59. It was a wonderful three weeks, the faculty and the students. It was like a big three week hang, if you will. Just hanging out with Gunther Schuller

Gunther Schuller
Gunther Schuller
b.1925
composer/conductor
, George Russell
George Russell
George Russell
1923 - 2009
piano
, The Modern Jazz Quartet...these were on the faculty now. Herb Pomeroy was a faculty member, Bill Evans
Bill Evans
Bill Evans
1929 - 1980
piano
, Kenny Dorham
Kenny Dorham
Kenny Dorham
1924 - 1972
trumpet
. And then the students: Ornette Coleman
Ornette Coleman
Ornette Coleman
b.1930
sax, alto
, Don Cherry
Don Cherry
Don Cherry
1936 - 1995
trumpet
, Gary McFarland
Gary McFarland
Gary McFarland
1933 - 1971
vibraphone
were all students; so I had a chance to meet all these people and it was really very, very helpful in many ways.

Steve Kuhn Plus I came to New York right after that in September of that year and called all these people I had met; I said "I am here now, and if you hear of anybody who needs a pianist, I'm around, I'm available." So Kenny Dorham was one I called and he just happened to need somebody at that particular time and so he hired me. That was quite a good stroke of luck, fortuitous.

AAJ: Aside from the obvious excitement of your instructors and your classmates, were there any artistic cross-pollination of ideas occurring, with like Ornette Coleman or any one while you were there?

SK: Each student was put in a group and the leaders of the group...my particular group was led by Max Roach

Max Roach
Max Roach
1925 - 2007
drums
and John Lewis
John Lewis
John Lewis
b.1920
piano
, they were our leaders. I was in a group with Ornette and Don Cherry.



For me this was somewhat of a dilemma because I had never experienced anything like that before, in terms of playing with musicians who improvise like that. I really didn't know quite what to do, the piano being more vertical in a sense (if you're going to be chording behind people.) So I just decided to lay out when they soloed. That seemed to me the best idea and I still say that to this day. It's really the best accompaniment for Ornette is piano-less groups. I know Paul Bley

Paul Bley
Paul Bley
b.1932
piano
had played with him. There are ways to do it.



I was more interested in hearing what he was doing and just trying to figure out if there was something I could do, what it would be. But for the most part I just laid out when he played. It was really nice to just be part of that group, and his compositions were quite special.



It was a great environment. The whole three week experience, nobody got much sleep and it was really quite special. It was really just day and night; everybody is playing all the time and talking about music, it was really nice. Dizzy Gillespie came to visit and Milt Jackson

Milt Jackson
Milt Jackson
1923 - 1999
vibraphone
was there. I will never forget it.

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