At the end of September, I interviewed Lady Gaga for a half hour by phone for The Wall Street Journal. We talked about Love for Sale—her new duet album with Tony Bennett—as well as a range of other subjects. My resulting piece went up online on Friday and the print version is in the paper's arts section today.
The last time I interviewed Lady was in 2014, just before her first album with Tony, Cheek to Cheek, was released. A lot has happened since then. In listening to the new album in past weeks, I've found there's a new maturity in her jazz-pop singing. In addition, Lady has become a formidable movie actress, a makeup entrepreneur, a philanthropist and a trendsetting superstar, not to mention one of the biggest pop stars in the world today.
Her most recent album, Chromatica, released in May 2020, is an electrifying, opera-sized pop-disco work. The newly released remix (above) with up-and-coming artists taking on Chromatica material also is exciting. Now Lady is about to embark on “Jazz & Piano," a nine-day residency with her jazz quintet at the Park MGM in Las Vegas. And there are TV specials coming with Tony, as well as the opening of her new movie, House of Gucci on November 24.
Yet Lady remains misunderstood by many who seem confused ot put-off by her strong fashion statements, her serial personas and her zest for constant change. Older jazz lovers think she's superficial and cold. Which is completely unfair. Personally, I find Lady as significant as Andy Warhol. No other living artist has Lady's thorough understanding of pop art in all its forms or her instinctive feel for how to maximize its impact on the mass market.
Unlike Warhol, however, Lady has a keen sense of humanity and enormous kindness. She also works harder than anyone else I know in that space to be exceptional in everything she takes on. It's a full-time job being Lady Gaga, not only performing at a high level but taking on the right projects and staging their release at just the right time.
On Love for Sale, Lady's voice has ripened and her phrasing shows she has a finer understand of jazz-pop singing. While I've posted in the past on my disdain for the American songbook, my criticism has been reserved for young artists who take on these worn, over-recorded standards. Tony Bennett was part of a generation that popularized the American songbook. These songs belong to him and anyone else who is good enough to join him.
The miracle of the new album is that when it was recorded in 2018, two years had passed since Tony's Alzheimer's diagnosis. I interviewed him that year for a WSJ piece when his duet album with Diana Krall, Love Is Here to Stay, came out. During our hour together, I found the effects of the disease starting to show. In watching the recent videos for Love for Sale, the parts of Tony's brain where vocal phrasing and song lyrics are stored have been completely unaffected by the disease.
But when the songs on the videos end, he seemed detached and unsure of the identities of everyone around him, which is par for the ailment. The fact that Tony's voice remains defiant and right on target is astonishing. As someone close to him told me recently, “Tony could do 60 minutes on stage right now if he had to, it's amazing." The human brain is an enigma, but it's glorious to know that music and song lyrics seared into the brain are resistant to memory loss or the last to go. The personality may go but the art remains, fighting until the end.
Here's some of my interview with Gaga that weren't included in my Wall Street Journal piece due to space considerations:
Marc Myers: Amazing what you did at the Presidential inauguration in January with The Star-Spangled Banner. You approached it almost with a sense of swing, holding notes longer and then pushing to catch up. It was an extraordinary peformance. Lady Gaga: Well, in terms of the arrangement, I have to hand it to my musical director, Michael Bearden. We worked on that together, and it was something that we conceptually spoke about. I remember when we decided to hold those bars for “there" after “that our flag was still there."
Here's Lady singing The Star-Spangle Banner...
MM: What were you doing during the pandemic in 2020?
LG: There was a period of time when I was concentrating on a collaboration with Global Citizen, the nonprofit, to raise money for the solidarity fund for Covid relief. I worked with colleagues of mine, as well as Global Citizen and close friends and loved ones in my life. And we were able to raise over $150 million in relief. We also put together a television special called One World Together at Home. The inspiration behind raising that money was that I really didn't want to ask anybody in the world to reach into their pockets to donate while they were watching the show. I just wanted them to enjoy the entertainment from artists all over the world.
MM: You also were prepping for House of Gucci, yes?
LG: Once the lockdown eased at the start of 2021, I was able to film the movie. That I'm very, very proud of. And I was able to work with the legendary Ridley Scott and his wife, Giannina Scott, and our producer. And I feel very, very blessed to have been in Italy and thought a lot about if any of this ties back to my Italian ancestry and Tony as well. I was able to plant my feet on the ground every day and know that I was where my family lived before they came over from Italy and worked hard so I could have a better life. I also remembered what Tony used to tell me, “When you feel like you hit the bottom, go deeper. And when you feel like you really nailed it, then go deeper." Meaning emotionally, don't stop. Just keep going deeper in your heart.
MM: How do you choose projects?
LG: I work on what speaks to me. When I first wanted to sing jazz publicly, I think a lot of people were very confused by this. They didn't know me. I've been singing jazz since I was a very, very young girl. When Tony said, “I believe in you," and I knew how much I believed in the music, all bets were off. Choosing a project like Cheek to Cheek or Love for Sale is where my heart lies.
MM: How was the pre-tape in August for One More Time, the CBS special with Tony at Radio City Music Hall coming Nov. 28?
LG: That touched my heart in a way that I don't know, Marc, I could adequately express it to you to. To walk a legend off stage and wonder if that will be the last time he's ever going to be under the spotlight. It was... bittersweet is the wrong word. It was a song that I'll probably write one day.
MM: While on stage, a lot of advance prep?
LG: At Radio City, I spent about six hours on just his reveal. I remember telling everyone, “I want it to be clear that I'm opening for Mr. Bennett. And that he should finish this show by himself so that when the show is over, he is having the last word." I worked on that opening, when that curtain hugs him from the side, over and over to get it just perfect for him, because that's what he deserved. He deserved a bed of roses. And on that bed of roses, Tony can go out there and he can sing his heart out. And boy does he sing from his heart. And he loves the public. I've never seen anybody love people as much as Tony. He loves the world. He would do anything to make somebody smile.
MM: How do you feel about jazz?
LG: Jazz is the greatest American music that's ever been made. And I feel blessed that I get to sing it. But I like to cite the great singers that came way before me: Dinah Washington, Etta James, Ella Fitzgerald, Billie Holiday and, dare I say, we lost her way too soon, Amy Winehouse. And Nina Simone. I feel very, very blessed that I got to have this experience and also to learn. Singing with Tony (pause)... I toured the world for years with him, and I learned that.
MM: What's the one big takeaway for you after working with Tony?
LG: There are a billion takeaways. I learned very quickly that you always follow the wisest person in the room. And that was always Mr. Bennett. And he empowered me, and my young friends that played jazz, to join him and his band, as well as the orchestra to create a stage performance that crossed generations. It's 60 years between me and Tony. And we spanned those years, and we did it together. And he was so inviting. But I remember watching him in rehearsal and I remember my experiences being on stage with him. I always was slightly behind him. I always made sure that he was just in front of me and I never crossed him. And if I did cross him, it was to twirl really fast to get to the other side.
MM: Why?
LG: Because Tony was the leader. And to follow him was the wise way to sing jazz. And then what I realized is that jazz has always been, a cry for true liberation. And jazz is communication. So you have to listen to each other, and we got to do this together. So in that pursuit of liberation, how can we listen and respond? If any given musician in the band decide to change just one note in any given figure at any given moment, I have to make a move. And I can't make that move if I'm not listening. So it's not about me. It's about us.
MM: The last time I interviewed Tony was in 2018, the same year you recorded the new album. He was already showing signs of Alzheimer's disease. How did you work around that during the recording?
LG: Well, truly, if I'm being completely transparent and honest, Tony doesn't need any pointers from anybody to sing jazz. So as soon as that music starts, he knows exactly where he is. But watching and feeling what was happening, I was uniquely aware that Tony's nature was changing. I had to breathe a lot. I had to listen a lot. I had to watch him on stage for our last performance. I watched Tony like I've never watched him before.
MM: You two have a special relationship that bonds one pop star to another.
LG: I'm grateful for my time with him. And I'm also grateful that I had his trust because as that nature began to change, he felt comfortable with me. And that's meaningful to me as a musical companion and as a friend. That he would trust me with this part of him. He trusted me with this part of him before he had Alzheimer's, and he trusted me with this part of him as his nature began to change. And I have nothing but respect for him. This has been an absolute privilege. And it means (pause)... I almost cried when you first got on the phone, Marc, because when you mentioned the Cole Porter song I sang on the album, Do I Love You, and how beautiful my voice sounds, I want you to know I was singing to Tony.
JazzWax note: Tony and Lady are backed on different tracks by a big band, orchestral strings, Lady's jazz quintet and Tony's jazz quartet. The big band was arranged and conducted by Marian Evans. The strings were arranged and conducted by Jorge Calandrelli.
JazzWax clips: Here's Lady Gaga singing Do I Love You...
Here's I've Got You Under My Skin...
JazzWax tracks: You'll find Tony Bennett and Lady Gaga's Love for Sale, here and here.
JazzWax note: Tony and Lady are backed on different tracks by a big band, orchestral strings, Lady's jazz quintet and Tony's jazz quartet. The big band was arranged and conducted by Marian Evans. The strings were arranged and conducted by Jorge Calandrelli.
JazzWax clips: Here's Lady Gaga singing Do I Love You...
Here's I've Got You Under My Skin...
The last time I interviewed Lady was in 2014, just before her first album with Tony, Cheek to Cheek, was released. A lot has happened since then. In listening to the new album in past weeks, I've found there's a new maturity in her jazz-pop singing. In addition, Lady has become a formidable movie actress, a makeup entrepreneur, a philanthropist and a trendsetting superstar, not to mention one of the biggest pop stars in the world today.
Her most recent album, Chromatica, released in May 2020, is an electrifying, opera-sized pop-disco work. The newly released remix (above) with up-and-coming artists taking on Chromatica material also is exciting. Now Lady is about to embark on “Jazz & Piano," a nine-day residency with her jazz quintet at the Park MGM in Las Vegas. And there are TV specials coming with Tony, as well as the opening of her new movie, House of Gucci on November 24.
Yet Lady remains misunderstood by many who seem confused ot put-off by her strong fashion statements, her serial personas and her zest for constant change. Older jazz lovers think she's superficial and cold. Which is completely unfair. Personally, I find Lady as significant as Andy Warhol. No other living artist has Lady's thorough understanding of pop art in all its forms or her instinctive feel for how to maximize its impact on the mass market.
Unlike Warhol, however, Lady has a keen sense of humanity and enormous kindness. She also works harder than anyone else I know in that space to be exceptional in everything she takes on. It's a full-time job being Lady Gaga, not only performing at a high level but taking on the right projects and staging their release at just the right time.
On Love for Sale, Lady's voice has ripened and her phrasing shows she has a finer understand of jazz-pop singing. While I've posted in the past on my disdain for the American songbook, my criticism has been reserved for young artists who take on these worn, over-recorded standards. Tony Bennett was part of a generation that popularized the American songbook. These songs belong to him and anyone else who is good enough to join him.
The miracle of the new album is that when it was recorded in 2018, two years had passed since Tony's Alzheimer's diagnosis. I interviewed him that year for a WSJ piece when his duet album with Diana Krall, Love Is Here to Stay, came out. During our hour together, I found the effects of the disease starting to show. In watching the recent videos for Love for Sale, the parts of Tony's brain where vocal phrasing and song lyrics are stored have been completely unaffected by the disease.
But when the songs on the videos end, he seemed detached and unsure of the identities of everyone around him, which is par for the ailment. The fact that Tony's voice remains defiant and right on target is astonishing. As someone close to him told me recently, “Tony could do 60 minutes on stage right now if he had to, it's amazing." The human brain is an enigma, but it's glorious to know that music and song lyrics seared into the brain are resistant to memory loss or the last to go. The personality may go but the art remains, fighting until the end.
Here's some of my interview with Gaga that weren't included in my Wall Street Journal piece due to space considerations:
Marc Myers: Amazing what you did at the Presidential inauguration in January with The Star-Spangled Banner. You approached it almost with a sense of swing, holding notes longer and then pushing to catch up. It was an extraordinary peformance. Lady Gaga: Well, in terms of the arrangement, I have to hand it to my musical director, Michael Bearden. We worked on that together, and it was something that we conceptually spoke about. I remember when we decided to hold those bars for “there" after “that our flag was still there."
Here's Lady singing The Star-Spangle Banner...
MM: What were you doing during the pandemic in 2020?
LG: There was a period of time when I was concentrating on a collaboration with Global Citizen, the nonprofit, to raise money for the solidarity fund for Covid relief. I worked with colleagues of mine, as well as Global Citizen and close friends and loved ones in my life. And we were able to raise over $150 million in relief. We also put together a television special called One World Together at Home. The inspiration behind raising that money was that I really didn't want to ask anybody in the world to reach into their pockets to donate while they were watching the show. I just wanted them to enjoy the entertainment from artists all over the world.
MM: You also were prepping for House of Gucci, yes?
LG: Once the lockdown eased at the start of 2021, I was able to film the movie. That I'm very, very proud of. And I was able to work with the legendary Ridley Scott and his wife, Giannina Scott, and our producer. And I feel very, very blessed to have been in Italy and thought a lot about if any of this ties back to my Italian ancestry and Tony as well. I was able to plant my feet on the ground every day and know that I was where my family lived before they came over from Italy and worked hard so I could have a better life. I also remembered what Tony used to tell me, “When you feel like you hit the bottom, go deeper. And when you feel like you really nailed it, then go deeper." Meaning emotionally, don't stop. Just keep going deeper in your heart.
MM: How do you choose projects?
LG: I work on what speaks to me. When I first wanted to sing jazz publicly, I think a lot of people were very confused by this. They didn't know me. I've been singing jazz since I was a very, very young girl. When Tony said, “I believe in you," and I knew how much I believed in the music, all bets were off. Choosing a project like Cheek to Cheek or Love for Sale is where my heart lies.
MM: How was the pre-tape in August for One More Time, the CBS special with Tony at Radio City Music Hall coming Nov. 28?
LG: That touched my heart in a way that I don't know, Marc, I could adequately express it to you to. To walk a legend off stage and wonder if that will be the last time he's ever going to be under the spotlight. It was... bittersweet is the wrong word. It was a song that I'll probably write one day.
MM: While on stage, a lot of advance prep?
LG: At Radio City, I spent about six hours on just his reveal. I remember telling everyone, “I want it to be clear that I'm opening for Mr. Bennett. And that he should finish this show by himself so that when the show is over, he is having the last word." I worked on that opening, when that curtain hugs him from the side, over and over to get it just perfect for him, because that's what he deserved. He deserved a bed of roses. And on that bed of roses, Tony can go out there and he can sing his heart out. And boy does he sing from his heart. And he loves the public. I've never seen anybody love people as much as Tony. He loves the world. He would do anything to make somebody smile.
MM: How do you feel about jazz?
LG: Jazz is the greatest American music that's ever been made. And I feel blessed that I get to sing it. But I like to cite the great singers that came way before me: Dinah Washington, Etta James, Ella Fitzgerald, Billie Holiday and, dare I say, we lost her way too soon, Amy Winehouse. And Nina Simone. I feel very, very blessed that I got to have this experience and also to learn. Singing with Tony (pause)... I toured the world for years with him, and I learned that.
MM: What's the one big takeaway for you after working with Tony?
LG: There are a billion takeaways. I learned very quickly that you always follow the wisest person in the room. And that was always Mr. Bennett. And he empowered me, and my young friends that played jazz, to join him and his band, as well as the orchestra to create a stage performance that crossed generations. It's 60 years between me and Tony. And we spanned those years, and we did it together. And he was so inviting. But I remember watching him in rehearsal and I remember my experiences being on stage with him. I always was slightly behind him. I always made sure that he was just in front of me and I never crossed him. And if I did cross him, it was to twirl really fast to get to the other side.
MM: Why?
LG: Because Tony was the leader. And to follow him was the wise way to sing jazz. And then what I realized is that jazz has always been, a cry for true liberation. And jazz is communication. So you have to listen to each other, and we got to do this together. So in that pursuit of liberation, how can we listen and respond? If any given musician in the band decide to change just one note in any given figure at any given moment, I have to make a move. And I can't make that move if I'm not listening. So it's not about me. It's about us.
MM: The last time I interviewed Tony was in 2018, the same year you recorded the new album. He was already showing signs of Alzheimer's disease. How did you work around that during the recording?
LG: Well, truly, if I'm being completely transparent and honest, Tony doesn't need any pointers from anybody to sing jazz. So as soon as that music starts, he knows exactly where he is. But watching and feeling what was happening, I was uniquely aware that Tony's nature was changing. I had to breathe a lot. I had to listen a lot. I had to watch him on stage for our last performance. I watched Tony like I've never watched him before.
MM: You two have a special relationship that bonds one pop star to another.
LG: I'm grateful for my time with him. And I'm also grateful that I had his trust because as that nature began to change, he felt comfortable with me. And that's meaningful to me as a musical companion and as a friend. That he would trust me with this part of him. He trusted me with this part of him before he had Alzheimer's, and he trusted me with this part of him as his nature began to change. And I have nothing but respect for him. This has been an absolute privilege. And it means (pause)... I almost cried when you first got on the phone, Marc, because when you mentioned the Cole Porter song I sang on the album, Do I Love You, and how beautiful my voice sounds, I want you to know I was singing to Tony.
JazzWax note: Tony and Lady are backed on different tracks by a big band, orchestral strings, Lady's jazz quintet and Tony's jazz quartet. The big band was arranged and conducted by Marian Evans. The strings were arranged and conducted by Jorge Calandrelli.
JazzWax clips: Here's Lady Gaga singing Do I Love You...
Here's I've Got You Under My Skin...
JazzWax tracks: You'll find Tony Bennett and Lady Gaga's Love for Sale, here and here.
JazzWax note: Tony and Lady are backed on different tracks by a big band, orchestral strings, Lady's jazz quintet and Tony's jazz quartet. The big band was arranged and conducted by Marian Evans. The strings were arranged and conducted by Jorge Calandrelli.
JazzWax clips: Here's Lady Gaga singing Do I Love You...
Here's I've Got You Under My Skin...
This story appears courtesy of JazzWax by Marc Myers.
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