By Scott Menhinick

Scott: It almost seems strange to think of the progenitors of free jazz improvisation working within in the realm of classical composition…

Gunther: We all learned from each other and I, as a classical musician, welcomed John and J.J. and whoever with open arms, so I could introduce improvisation into my music. I couldn't do it with classical musicians, right? And on the other side, the jazz musicians welcomed some of us who were fluent in classical music to bring that extended form, complex forms, twelve-tone music, whatever, techniques that jazz musicians hadn't ever even dreamt of, let alone worked on. So it was exactly as Third Stream implies: coming together in very profound, important deep ways, trying to make a new music out of this amalgam.

In the meantime, Mingus got completely ignored as a composer. Mingus, who to me is the greatest composer since Ellington, was known for knocking people's teeth out and for being a great bass player and band leader and all that. But even to this day he is not recognized for his enormous contributions, particularly in the realm of composition, I mean real composition. This is a sitting-down, writing-out composer. So all of this was a battleground for twenty, thirty, even possibly forty years before we get to where we are now, where there's not even a discussion: everybody can do everything…you know? Even Dizzy Gillespie, when I recorded "Perceptions" with him, which is a J.J. composition, I mean Dizzy on the record sounds okay, but you can tell that he's not comfortable at all, he struggled with that, you know? Which is not to criticize Dizzy, but just to point out how new and difficult all of that was. And that very often it was the performances that were not totally convincing because it just was too early. But you have to begin somewhere, right? And so we were pioneers in something, which has now become totally universal in music

Scott: To kind of balance out this conversation, let's talk about some modern stuff, what you've been doing recently. How do you choose what to produce and release on your label, GM Recordings?

Gunther: Charlie Parker learned a lot from the Basie band and from Buster Smith, but then he finally invented his own language-that's what great artists are supposed to do. He didn't just pop out of nowhere with some crazy notion of music. No, that was based on his development of what it is that he grew up with in Kansas City. So this anchoring in some way, in some important way in the past without repeating the past, but on the basis of the past building something new: that is what is important.

Scott: How did you start the label?

Gunther: The way it came about is that a composer named Alec Wilder, a dear friend of mine who had written 300 pieces got to be in his sixties and seventies and he had all this music stashed in some friend's basement. I said: 'Listen, Alec, let me start a publishing company. I'll publish your music, I'll print it, I'll distribute it and sell it' and so on. And he was very grateful, he died a few years after that. And around that nucleus of these compositions, classical music, jazz-influenced classical music, I built the rest of the company by giving young composers that I felt were of talent and serious, giving young composers their first publications. The record company started as an adjunct to that, to give young composers their first recorded performances; to give young musicians their first debut on a recording. These are all things that big record companies would never touch because there is no money in it! It is inherent that what I do would lose money here. So it was a totally altruistic, idealistic enterprise- it still is. You know, I'm not gonna take my money with me to heaven or hell, wherever I'm going. So I want to do something good with it even though my means are very limited. I'm no millionaire!

Scott: Do you feel a responsibility? Do you feel you can be a champion of under-appreciated 20th century music?

Gunther: Well, both of those. But, you know, some people of course will ask is Gunther heroic or is he a stupid ass? You know, spending all of his money. Why doesn't he take his money and sit on a beach and retire in Florida? That's what most people do when they hit the retirement. No, I feel very proud of what I've done. And it is this sense that some of us have to contribute to the culture, to the society in ways that may hurt financially, so what? We do it because we are born to do it, we feel we have no other choice and so be it.

Scott: Will there ever be any sort of re-issues or any kind of releases from musicians that haven't been able to record for a while or is it always going to be newer musicians trying to push the music forward?

Gunther: I am glad you asked that. You know, nowadays the big companies only record the youngest people they can find. If a big company can find an eleven-year-old Wynton Marsalis, they'll record him the next day. In the meantime, they're ignoring all the older ones. I got John LaPorta who is now 77, Joe Wilder who is, I think, 76 and Britt Woodman who is also in his seventies and I recorded them, because they were not getting any recordings. So I am on that front, too. No, I am not just working with young people. I hate it when the big companies look for some sensation. If someone is fifteen-years old and can play a couple of Charlie Parker tunes they think 'Wow ! Let's record him!' In the meantime all the great musicians are dying on the vine, except when little companies spend some money to record them. But the big one's won't touch them, there is no money in it.

Scott: With a laundry list of accolades: honorary doctorates, a genius award, lifetime achievement awards and a Pulitzer, what's still motivating you? What do you feel that you have left to accomplish that keeps you from going on that beach to retire?

Gunther: Well, because music is my life and music is not work for me. People complain 'Oh, I've got so much work, I hate work'. I don't hate work, composing is not work for me, it's my pleasure; it's my life. So why should I stop? If something is pleasurable and exciting and rewarding, why should one stop? So I don't intend to retire in that sense, the Florida sense. As long as I'm healthy and can keep going that's what I'll do. I would like to read some books: I don't have time; I would like to continue working on my autobiography. Because I have sixty years of being a professional composer, conductor, musician, whatever, and you develop a lot of friendships and you get involved with a lot of sort of long-term commitments and obligations. And of course my three companies keep me incredibly busy.

An article ran in the Mar/Apr Signal To Noise (1999)