By Allen Huotari

Ted Nash (clarinet, bass clarinet, flute, tenor, alto, and soprano saxophones) was born in 1959 in Los Angeles, California. Mr. Nash's exposure to and passion for music was brought about by his father (Dick Nash) and uncle (Ted Nash) who were both well-known studio and jazz musicians. He began playing the saxophone at age 13 and his first professional gig was with Lionel Hampton at age 16. By the time he was 17, Mr. Nash had toured Europe, recorded three albums, and was performing with Quincy Jones, Don Ellis, Louis Bellson, and Toshiko Akiyoshi. In 1978, he moved to New York and began his recording career as a sideman.

Mr. Nash has performed, composed, arranged, and recorded with the Mel Lewis Jazz Orchestra. His compositions have also been performed by the American Jazz Orchestra, the Stockholm Jazz Orchestra, and the Rotterdam Conservatorium Orchestra. He is currently a member of the Lincoln Center Jazz Orchestra and is also a Composer-in-Residence of the Jazz Composers Collective, a non-profit, musician-run organization dedicated to performing the original works of current innovative composers. Furthermore, Mr. Nash has toured the United States with his quartet on numerous occasions, performs regularly in New York, and as a jazz educator has taught improvisation at New York University.

The most recent recordings to feature Ted Nash are RHYME AND REASON (Arabesque) by his Double Quartet (and featuring trumpeter Wynton Marsalis as guest artist), and the second release from the Herbie Nichols project entitled DR. CYCLOPS' DREAM (Soul Note). Both of these recordings were released in Oct. 1999.

Of RHYME AND REASON , Glenn Astarita (AAJ Modern Jazz Editor) writes:

” (Ted Nash) shines as a composer and arranger while displaying a keen ear for nuance, melody and lyricism…a solid set of originals further enhanced by immeasurable support from fellow bandmates of the JCC…Nash’ ability to entertain and sustain interest lies within his sharp arrangements, memorably melodic compositions and strong leadership qualities…RHYME AND REASON offers the complete package as it all sounds so natural and effortless…Highly Recommended!”

To help celebrate the release of RHYME AND REASON Ted Nash was kind enough to participate in the following interview, which was conducted via e-mail in September 1999.

ALL ABOUT JAZZ: Your father, Dick Nash, and uncle, Ted Nash, were both relatively well known jazz and session musicians. What are your earliest musical memories of your dad and uncle?

TED NASH: It was wonderful growing up in a musical household. My father is a trombonist and of course that was the first instrument I tried to play. TRIED to play. He used to give me lessons, but it definitely wasn't my instrument. One Christmas Eve, I think I was about eight, I had to play “Jingle Bells” for all the visiting friends and relatives - I guess I was the evening's entertainment. Well, I completely messed it up. I mean destroyed it. I think it just as easily could have passed for “Dreidel, Dreidel, Dreidel”. And I'm sure it was VERY entertaining, but I ran out of the room crying, traumatized. But later, at age twelve, when I expressed an interest in the clarinet, my father took me right down to the music store and rented me one. He was probably relieved to get that trombone out of my hands. What I loved more than anything was going with my father to his studio dates. I saw him record, and often with my uncle playing in the reed section, TV shows like Mod Squad, Partridge Family, as well as recordings for movies with Henry Mancini, and even records with people like Barry White. Regardless of how deep or how trite the music was it always sounded so beautiful in person.

AAJ: Your bio states that you began playing the saxophone at age 13. Why did you choose the saxophone?

TN:Well, I was already playing the clarinet, and making quick progress (unlike with the trombone) and one day my father came home with an alto. I guess he just thought it was time for me to start playing it.

AAJ: Since your father and uncle were both professional musicians, did you make a conscious decision to become a professional musician? Or was becoming a musician more or less inevitable? Please elaborate.

TN: Well, it's funny but by the time I was a teenager there was no question in my mind I was going to be a musician. At first I wanted to be a classical clarinetist. My brother Bill played the trumpet. Sometimes my dad would put on a jazz record, I remember particularly this blues in B-flat by Billy Taylor, and my brother was there with his trumpet and my dad had is trombone, and me with my clarinet, and dad would say "just play what you hear," and we would start jamming along. It probably sounded pretty bad but we were having a good time. It wasn't until a couple of years later when I first really heard Charlie Parker that I felt truly drawn to jazz.

AAJ: In addition to your father and uncle, who (or what) would you cite as your primary influences?

TN: After I started high school I kept hearing about this guy who taught jazz improvisation. I would hear about him through other people, and finally I found out how to get in touch with him. Turned out to be one of the greatest things I could have done. Charlie Shoemake is his name, and he played vibes with George Shearing on the road for a few years, then settled down in Los Angeles to raise a family and teach. Every week he would give me a different solo to learn; usually by Bird, or Sonny Rollins, Clifford Brown, Hank Mobley - people like that. I had to come the next week and play the solo along with the record without using any music. I would copy every inflection, every vibrato - even squeaks or clams. I really got inside the music. After a couple years of that I had developed quite an understanding of the be-bop language. And I could actually really play.

AAJ: By the time you were 17, you had performed and/or recorded with Lionel Hampton, Quincy Jones, Don Ellis, Louis Bellson, Toshiko Akiyoshi and had toured Europe. What are your most profound memories of this time? What lessons did you learn that remain valuable or useful for you to this day?

TN: Well, with Quincy I learned about tough breaks. I was sixteen and had auditioned and won the position of lead alto with his band for a five-week tour. But when the lawyers found out how old I was, after two weeks of rehearsing all day, every day, I was told I couldn't go; something to do with child labor laws. Quincy even offered to adopt me temporarily. I'll never forget it - we were all walking down this hallway after the rehearsal when he made that comment, but the lawyers shot it down with a glance, looking back at their clipboards to see what was next on the agenda. I found out how disposable I was.

Louis Bellson is the greatest, most enthusiastic person to work with. He taught me about positive attitude and always respecting others. I just saw him in Vienna this summer and he was just the same. And he's still playing, too!

Don Ellis made a comment once that had a great impact on me. We were doing a soundcheck at the Montreux Jazz Festival and we knew it was being recorded for release on LP. We were working on a piece called “Go-No-Go” which featured Don and me, and he turned to me and said "don't be afraid to put some dirt in there." He could tell that I was still too concerned with playing cleanly, without a lot of expression. I still think about that comment sometimes.

AAJ: As a follow up, your first recording as a leader was at age 18. What was the biggest lesson you learned here?

TN: Actually I think I was nineteen. I was a bit headstrong. The pianist, Randy Kerber, and I had just finished an improvisational duo version of “Stella by Starlight”. It felt so good, probably the best thing on the record. And the producer said that, while although he loved it, Carl Jefferson, the owner of Concord Records, and I suppose executive producer of the record, would probably want to hear another version with more melody. Almost laughing I said no way, that version was exactly how it should be. Well, the record came out, but I never recorded for Carl again. Come to think of it I would probably do the same thing today. I suppose what I learned here is to be true to your art at whatever price. Years later I talked with Carl and he told me that I had be-bopped my way out of the business, whatever that means. I guess because I wasn't in his swing circle I was out of the business.

AAJ: Your new recording, RHYME AND REASON, is by your “Double Quartet”. Ordinarily, one would expect a double quartet to feature two sets of identical instrumentation (two winds, two bassists, two drummers, two pianists). But you’ve taken your quartet (winds, piano, bass, drums) and added a string quartet plus a vibist/percussionist (in addition to trumpet for two tracks). So why call it the Double Quartet instead of something else (especially since there seem to be typically nine musicians)?

TN: Good question, to which I basically don't have a good answer. Often the phrase "Double Quartet" refers to two string quartets. Originally I called this group "Double Quartet Plus One" due to the ninth member (vibes/percussion). But then I added trumpet playing on some of the music so maybe I should have called it "Double Quartet Plus One, But Sometimes One More." So it just seemed easier to just drop the "Plus" business and keep it simple. Anyway, the basic idea of having a jazz quartet together with string quartet is what's important, and I don't think are any rules with regard to using the term "Double Quartet."

AAJ: The title of the recording would seem to be indicative of the theme as explained in the liner notes (your two daughters and/or two children interacting). Would you please elaborate on this for the AAJ readership? (or correct me if I’m mistaken)

TN: Well, the composition “Rhyme” was written with nursery rhymes in mind, and the melody is very pure and simple. On the recording my daughters, Emily and Lisa, are reading nursery rhymes in the background while Frank Kimbrough plays the melody very straight, like a child at a piano lesson. Then the music opens up from there. The title of the cd RHYME AND REASON was actually suggested to me by my eleven year old, Emily. She asked me what was I going to call it, and I said I don't know, and she said how about Rhyme and Reason? How appropriate that a child should title a cd that's inspired by children.

AAJ: What aspect of making this recording was the most fun? What was the most difficult? What have you learned that you will carry forward to your next recording?

TN: The greatest feeling is looking around a studio and seeing all these musicians putting their heart and soul into something that you've created, helping you to bring it to fruition. And the pride that I experience when I look at Tim and Frank and Ben, seeing how they've developed during these many years we've played together. And having Wynton just wanting to be involved with your music, and showing up with such dedication to play his best, even though he'd be in the middle of some important writing project, for which he is late on a deadline. Sometimes when there are so many details to take care of to make something like this happen, like booking the room, making sure you've got all the music, that the set up is correct, you have all the tape, everyone has shown up, etc., you may have overlooked getting your own personal stuff together, like a good reed, or just feeling totally ready, physically and spiritually, to be at your best. But regardless, once the tape is rolling you've got to just forget all these details and play, be in the moment.

AAJ: In your experience as a jazz educator, in addition to techniques of jazz performance, composition and improvisation, do you feel that intangibles such as enhancements to creativity or imaginative prowess can be taught? If so, how? What approaches might be employed?

TN: I think one of the most important things that is overlooked in the academic setting is helping the student find what their own voice is, and how to express something which is personal. Most jazz programs concentrate on teaching students a certain way to look at music, and a particular way to play, instead of creating an environment in which the students can find what it is THEY like, how THEY want to play. It's hard for me to imagine someone like Hank Mobley being the kind of player he was because he went to school (and I especially hate to think what would have happened if he DID). Now, that doesn't mean I am against teaching music; in fact I think it is very important to try to inspire young musicians, and to expose them to as much as possible.

AAJ: As a follow up (and I ask this out of curiousity as a father myself) are there any techniques or approaches you use to foster creativity in your daughters? If so, what? If not, why not?

TN: Support is the most important. Children are naturally very creative. There's not much that you have to do to encourage kids to be creative. You just need to let them do it. If they want to paint, make sure they have enough paper and crayons. When they show you their painting it's better to say "I love it," or "I liked the other one better" rather than "that's great," or "that's not as good as your last one" which are judgmental statements. Once kids feel they are being judged, even if it's positive, it puts pressure on them. Often I believe limitations on a child's creativity are often put in to place by adult’s own agendas, like being too busy to show enough support or interest, or telling a kid they'll never be good enough. Exposure is very important. Let them see, hear, experience art in any way possible. Bring them to performances, museums. They will let you know when something interests them. My youngest daughter, Lisa, can talk in all sorts of accents. I don't know where she got this talent, but, for example she can talk in this totally authentic southern drawl, as if she were born and raised in Texas. I have no idea where she gets this. Or she can do the whole Valley-Girl thing, which just makes me laugh. She even started messing around with a British accent after recently having these English baby-sitters. I always want to hear her do this, but she gets shy. I keep thinking she should be an actress, which, of course, is my own ego speaking. She says she wants to be a veterinarian. My older daughter, Emily, was inspired to play the trumpet after the girls came out on the road with me for a few days this summer with the LCJO. Wynton gave her a trumpet for her birthday, and her first lesson. But now she's doesn't seem as interested, and it's hard for me to not push. But she wants to write stories, which is something she really enjoys. And she can write, too!

AAJ: You’ve worked extensively with jazz orchestras, most notably with Mel Lewis, the American Jazz Orchestra, the Stockholm Jazz and Rotterdam Conservatorium orchestras, and now the Lincoln Center Jazz Orchestra. In your work with these orchestras, which performances or recordings have been the most fun, most enjoyable, or most memorable? Which have been the most demanding or challenging? From which have you learned the most as a musician or composer? What is it you’ve learned from the above?

TN: The Mel Lewis band was like a family. I was quite young when I joined, I think about 21, and I think I aired of lot of my musical dirty laundry on that band. I mean, don't get me wrong, there was some pretty interesting laundry hanging on that line sometimes. But it was a great place to grow. It was amazing to sit between Dick Oatts and Joe Lovano for ten years. I learned so much, more than I could possible describe, about music, and being a person. I would always look at certain people in that band as role models for different attributes, like humility, or support, or conviction. I think the most important recording with the Mel Lewis band was TO YOU, the one we made just after he passed away. It was a very emotional experience to play that music and think of him. We had just played some of the music at his memorial service, and at one point during the Thad Jones chart “To You” someone got choked up and couldn't play. This sentiment began to spread, and soon about half the band was unable to play. But we kept taking turns, some playing while others would stop and try to get it together. It was rough, but also quite a bonding experience. My association with the Lincoln Center Jazz Orchestra has similarly become quite familial. Although it's a bit different now because I'm 39, not 21, and have grown a lot. I know more clearly who I am and what I want. The musicians in his band are great to play with and great to be with, which is extremely important when you're traveling on the road together six months out of the year.

AAJ: What musicians would you most like to work with that you've never worked with before?

TN: Well, a lot of the great musicians that I would have loved to play with, or even hear in person, aren't with us anymore. I just heard an amazing concert the other night with Yo-Yo Ma playing solo cello, and he is certainly someone with whom I would love to have the opportunity to play. I love Andrew Hill's music and have played some of it, but would love to perform it with him sometime. Roy Haynes, Dave Holland, Charlie Haden and Elvin Jones are some of the musicians with whom I think it would be incredible to share a musical experience. I actually had the chance to play with Elvin Jones many years ago. I was in my early twenties. I played this little informal concert with Louie Bellson quartet at a drum clinic, and a lot of great drummers were there, including Mel Lewis and Elvin Jones. I think it was before I joined the Mel Lewis band. Elvin introduced himself and said he like the way that I played, that it had "moved him," and invited me to sit in with his band that night at the Bottom Line. I was too scared and didn't go. Sometimes you just make bad choices. I've played and recorded with Paul Motian many years ago, but would love the chance to do it again, now that I've grown. One of my dreams when I was a teenager was to be in Horace Silver's band. I used to play along with his records for hours. My fantasy was to move to New York and get into Horace's band. Well, I've been in New York over 20 years and I still haven't met him.

AAJ: What recordings by other musicians have you heard lately that have excited you?

TN: I have enjoyed the music on recent CDs by Sam Newsome (GLOBAL UNITY), Michael Blake (KINGDOM OF CHAMPA) and Steve Turre (RHYTHM WITHIN) where they have explored world music rhythms and open grooves. I have some Astor Piazolla CDs, as well as some recordings by Dino Saluzzi and Dave Douglas, that have inspired me to write for my band with accordion, tuba, violin, clarinet and drums. Franks Kimbrough's CHANT with Ben Allison and Jeff Ballard is a CD I carry with me everywhere. Recently I bought the Blue Note reissue of the Herbie Nichols recordings, which are truly amazing. This is a CD set that should, without exception, be in everyone's collection. I also recently picked up the Focus record by Stan Getz, which is incredible. I have been rediscovering Stan Getz. Everything he did was inspirational. Other musicians whose recent recordings I have enjoyed include Bill Frisell, Myra Melford, Myron Waldon, Wes Anderson, and Bill Stuart.

AAJ: Do you have any preparatory routines or rituals prior to performing live?

TN: Not particularly. Trying to find a reed takes about ninety percent of preparation time and energy. With that done I just trying to relax and remind myself to be in the moment once the music starts, and not to worry about trying to impress anyone but just be honest to the music; to play in a way that serves the music as a whole.

AAJ: What's the funniest or most embarrassing thing that's happened to you while performing or recording?

TN: When I was called to play tenor with Benny Goodman I showed up at the first rehearsal with my tenor which, of course, lost a pad while I was warming up. I found it and quickly stuck it back in, but it wasn't covering very well. Of course all the parts on the "fourth tenor" book are really low, a range which is difficult to play, especially if the horn is leaking at all. I was having trouble blending with the other saxophones and Benny kept stopping the band and having me play my parts by myself. And I have to say it sounded pretty bad, trying to swing on these low inner parts, with or without a leaky horn. At the end of the rehearsal Benny called me aside and said that it just wasn't working out between us; that my sound...it just wasn't...well, fashionable. Later he told the other guys in the section that I had a tone like a cow. I don't know why, maybe the guys in the band encouraged him to give me a second chance, but he seemed to have a change of heart and called me the next day and hired me back. The first concert was later that week, at Yale University. Right in the middle of the concert, out of the blue, he pointed at me to solo. I jumped out of my seat and swung as hard as I could, with as big a sound as possible. The guys in the band all were rooting for me. After that, Benny started featuring me more and more. I was in the band until he died, about seven months later.

AAJ: Since you participate in the Jazz Composers Collective, I have to ask if the phrase "Modern Jazz" actually have any meaning or significance for you? If so, where do you see "Modern Jazz" heading within the next 5 years? How (or will) Ted Nash fit into this?

TN: I don't like categories very much. I don't like labeling things. It's just what it is. Music is music. We all are influenced by so many things whether it be music, art, people, events, whatever. They are all reflected in the music we play and write. When I hear the term modern jazz, it tells me nothing, because the meaning differs greatly depending on the conceptions and tastes of the person coining it. Duke Ellington was modern, but is it "modern jazz" today? It was modern because it expressed something that was reflective of the times it was in. When you listen to an original Duke record it is still modern. But if you listen to a bunch of people today sitting around playing “Satin Doll”, is that modern? It's the energy and intent which created the original music which is modern. Jazz is only 100 years old, so by nature everything is 20th century. If we say 20th century when referring to classical music it automatically means "contemporary." I think musicians who are writing and playing music which expresses where they are and what they are hearing today, based on all they have been exposed to and what they have experienced, are creating something that is modern.

AAJ: In conclusion, what other projects can we expect from Ted Nash in 2000-2001?

TN: I am currently traveling quite a lot with Wynton Marsalis and the Lincoln Center Jazz Orchestra, and that will be the case in 2000. The Jazz Composers Collective is going strong and always growing and I look forward to the projects that come out of that. We are now looking at setting up concerts and tours with some of the groups that got their start with the Collective include the Herbie Nichols Project and Ben Allison's Medicine Wheel, as well as my Double Quartet, and another group I put together, a quintet which features Miri Ben-Ari (violin), Bill Schimmel (accordion), Wycliffe Gordon (tuba and trombone), Jeff Ballard (drums) and me on clarinet and saxophone. I hope to record this music sometime in early 2000. We will be playing a concert at the Museum of Modern Art in New York on January 7th. It's always an uphill battle, and we've all been working so hard and have supported each other for years. It feels good that all this work and commitment is paying off.

I would like to thank you for your interest in doing this interview and I'd like to let people know that if they want to get in touch with me they can e-mail me care of the Jazz Composers Collective address, which is mail@jazzcollective.com.

TED NASH Selected Discography

as a leader:

Rhyme and Reason (Arabesque)

European Quartet (Elabeth)

Out Of This World (Mapleshade)

Conception (Concord Jazz)

as a sideman:

Herbie Nichols Project Dr. Cyclops' Dream (Soul Note)

Herbie Nichols Project Love is Proximity (Soul Note)

Ben Allison and Medicine Wheel Third Eye (Palmetto)

Ben Allison Medicine Wheel (Palmetto)

Ben Allison Quintet Seven Arrows (Koch Jazz)

Marcus Roberts Portraits In Blue (Sony Classical)

Marcus Roberts Blues for the New Millennium (Sony Classical)

Wynton Marsalis Sweet Release and Ghost Story (Sony Classical)

Joe Lovano Celebrating Sinatra (Blue Note)

Carnegie Hall Big Band The Carnegie Hall Big Band (Blue Note)

Mel Lewis Soft Lights and Hot Music (Music Masters)

Mel Lewis The Definitive Thad Jones Vol. I and II (Music Masters)

Mel Lewis To You (Music Masters)