By Allen Huotari

Part of the rich heritage of jazz is the liberty given the musician to re-interpret classic tunes in new and innovative ways. Frequently this is due to the inherently high quality and inspirational nature of the source material being covered (how far wrong can one go in covering John Coltrane’s “Naima” or Ornette Coleman’s “Lonely Woman”?) but in large part it is due to the increasing acceptance and willingness of the jazz audience towards the reworking of “hallowed” music (one may cynically argue that jazz really doesn’t need another Coltrane or Miles Davis tribute disc. This is probably true but the commercial viability of these projects is indicative of their acceptance by an audience. But I digress…)

Similar audience acceptance has also been typically found to exist in both mainstream and alternative rock genres (please, no flames about quality of the source material or the intelligence of the fan base).

However, when it comes to “progressive rock”, there has been a historical reluctance of musicians to record and perform what could easily be termed nearly 30 years on as “standards”. Part of this is the frequent resentment if not outright hostility expressed by the prog-rock fan base towards the few musicians who have attempted to rework “hallowed” music. Another is that the music is often flat out difficult to play. But given the intrinsically innovative nature of progressive rock (plus the fact that much of it never truly reached it’s full potential…but again I digress), the genre should have been proven long ago to be a fertile territory for imaginative and colorful re-interpretations.

Fortunately, the historical aversion of musicians and fan base towards seems to be dissipating (i.e., if you believe that tributes to prog rock bands are a good thing) as the past few years have seen numerous cds devoted to the music of Pink Floyd, Yes, Genesis, King Crimson, and the like.

However, of potentially significant interest to the AAJ reader (more on this below), is the recently released tribute cd to the music of legendary prog-rock keyboards/bass/drums trio Emerson, Lake, and Palmer. Entitled ENCORES, LEGENDS & PARADOX (on the Magna Carta label), composer/multi-instrumentalist/vocalist Robert Berry and composer/keyboardist Trent Gardner splendidly plunge headlong into the formidable challenges of recording convincing and vital renditions of music that many consider to be the virtual encyclopedic definition of progressive rock.

Here’s what AAJ modern jazz editor (and closet prog rock fan) Glenn Astarita has to say about ENCORES, LEGENDS & PARADOX:

”ENCORES, LEGENDS & PARADOX give the ground breaking prog-rock band Emerson, Lake & Palmer a rebirth of sorts with this sparkling, multi-dimensional and contemporary representation of ELP originals and adaptations…These first class musicians provide a new slant by reviving the essence of ELP yet offset the original compositions with additional instrumentation and clever orchestrations. There are numerous twists and turns and welcome surprises as these gents reinvent ELP and offer a new and enticing look.”

In conclusion, why does this writer think that AAJ readers might be interested in an ELP tribute cd? The answer is simple but personal. The music of ELP, with it’s blending of rock dynamics, classical virtuosity, and deeply infused jazz elements virtually single-handedly inspired me to seek out similarly innovative music whether it was progressive rock, jazz, or classical. But from a purely jazz perspective, ELP directly led me to Jimmy Smith and Dave Brubeck, indirectly to Miles Davis and Ornette Coleman, which led me inevitably to my current inclinations for Bill Frisell, Bobby Previte, John Zorn, Tim Berne, Anthony Braxton, Gerry Hemingway, Dave Douglas, etc.

If, like me, you are a jazz enthusiast and arrived at this stage from a progressive rock training ground, then I’m willing to bet that the music of ELP played a crucial role in your development as well.

AAJ is pleased to present an interview with Robert Berry, co-producer of ENCORES, LEGENDS & PARADOX. Mr. Berry is best known for his work with Keith Emerson and Carl Palmer in the post-ELP band Three and for his work with Steve Hackett (Genesis) and Steve Howe (Yes) in the band GTR but has also released a number of solo albums (for more info go to http://www.robertberry.com/).

Thanks to: AAJ modern jazz editor Glenn Astarita for suggesting this project and Mark Morton at Chipster P.R. for facilitating the interview.

Special thanks to Robert Berry for sharing his time with All About Jazz.

ALL ABOUT JAZZ: You would seem to be in a uniquely paradoxical position. As one of a mere handful of musicians to record and perform with both Keith Emerson and Carl Palmer, you are simultaneously a peer to these so-called “living legends”, but, by being younger, are also a peer to thousands of progressive rock fans who literally grew up listening to ELP. With regard to this project, which proves to be the greater emotional trial and why: Meeting the demanding standards of ELP ? Or living up to the (frequently and excessively merciless) expectations of the legion of “pushing 40 and over” prog rock fans?

ROBERT BERRY: That is the one reason that this ELP tribute is so important and I am glad you hit on this. The high standard of ELP music is the reason that so many musicians were influenced by them, myself included. Everybody I had do tracks, Simon Phillips, Jordan Rudess, all of them treated it with the same respect and high standard that they had come to expect from ELP. In my new arrangements I took what I felt were the best parts of the songs and developed them into something that sounded more current. I took the original composed music and threw out the fluff, reworked the chord structures some, changed bass lines and pretty much did what I damned pleased based on that original composition. I put it that way because I feel that when doing tributes the challenge is to use the original written music and amend it in some way that still retains what it was that made it good in the first place. This I believe will satisfy the old ELP diehards and also that new demanding audience. All of this is based on my own fairly long journey within the progressive rock community. It is always a challenge to walk that fine line, that balance between what has already been proven and accepted and where I personally think something could go. A place that is different but just as good if not better. With other tributes I have done like “Roundabout” (Yes) and “Watcher of the Skies” (Genesis) I have received reviews and email from some that think I breathe new life into old pieces and there are others that would like me to not disturb what they hold sacred. I enjoy hearing both impressions and I can understand both points of view. This has actually relieved any self inflicted pressure I would have put on myself. I have a plan, I follow that plan and enjoy every minute of it. I'm not sure I've answered the question but as you can see I love doing these and I treat the projects with the utmost artistic respect.

AAJ: One could imagine an alternative dilemma being the difficulty in keeping the emotional challenge of meeting Emerson’s and Palmer’s favor (as friends and former collaborators) separate from the raw technical and creative challenges (as a professional musician) of re-inventing this music. An added complication might be of maintaining a distinction between these factors and the passions or mental associations a (presumably) long time fan would have against “tampering with the classics.” Was it possible or necessary to keep these seemingly exclusive objectives isolated? If so, how? If not, why?

RB: It is funny to me that I get responses from some fans and reporters that I have done a faithful reproduction of the original. In other words I haven't changed a thing. I take this as a compliment because to them I haven't disturbed their sacred cow. Although to guys like Keith and Carl they know that I have changed quite a bit. They know the little twists and turns that have brought new life to their music. I felt I had a bit of an advantage by knowing them. I know that they both like more groove to the music these days and like it as powerful as it can get. So in my original concept I made sure that the drums would sound powerful and solid and that the bass and guitar work would have lots of energy. When I sent Keith a rough mix copy of “Karn Evil #9” he was on the phone to me before the piece finished. He loved it and was really impressed with the rhythm section. Carl didn't hear it until he got the final CD but he also called and was quite impressed with #9. Not to sound over confident but I knew they would like it. That was the challenge I had taken upon myself. I didn't stop reworking until I knew they would like it. I felt that if I got their stamp of approval then the rest of the listeners wouldn't be far behind. But we'll see. That said, I did not gauge my creative ideas on what Keith and Carl would think. I had to stay true to what I do.

AAJ: You’ve participated in tribute recordings to a number of other progressive rock bands (Pink Floyd, Yes, Genesis) and in addition have produced most of the tribute to another (Jethro Tull). In two of these instances, you also had a working relationship with band members being paid tribute to (via GTR: Steve Hackett of Genesis and Steve Howe of Yes). Nevertheless, how was accomplishing this tribute different than the others?

RB: The music of ELP is just hard, hard, hard stuff to play. The amount of time figuring out and learning how to play this stuff was immense. And I had played some of it with Keith before. In the case of the Yes tribute the song was complicated but not too over the top. I had sent the track to Steve Howe to play the finale' guitar part for me. I thought that would be a nice touch. He sent me back a letter with the guitar parts telling me how much he liked the new version. Actually compared it favorably to the original. With the Genesis track I got my old band Hush together and we did that track together. We use to do it as a cover tune. It seemed that putting the old group of musicians I worked with together to play a song by some other guys I was close to kind of tied together. All the tributes were a challenge in different ways but because of my close connection with Keith and Carl I really wanted this to be a knock out. I also found that the musicians that played on this treated it less like a studio job than on the other tributes I had done. This band really meant something to them when they were just starting out. There just aren't many rock musicians that play like Keith and Carl. One night after a show in Texas, Keith, Carl and I were checking out a place called the River Walk. There was a jazz club there and we sat down to have a drink. The band had no idea who we were but when they found out we were a band they asked if we would like to sit in. Piano, Brushes and String Bass. There aren't many rock musicians that could have pulled that off (I was hanging on by a thread on the stand-up).

AAJ: How was the material chosen? Were the songs pre-selected by Magna Carta and subsequently assigned to you and Trent Gardner (keyboardist for Magellan and producer for œ of the project)? Or were you given the liberty to choose freely?

RB: Magna Carta did a market survey to get a list of possible tracks. From there I told them if I was to be involved I would like to chose the tracks that I felt were the most difficult and the mainstays of the ELP audience. Good idea at the time, bad idea once I had to figure out all those chords and melody lines. I had a few tense days at the beginning. I had to call Keith and have him send over his original manuscript so I could check some of the parts I had written out.

AAJ: Many ELP fans may be disappointed to learn that some of Greg Lake’s hallmark tunes are conspicuously absent. They may question why a song like “A Time and a Place” is chosen in lieu of “From the Beginning”. Long time prog fans might argue that John Wetton’s voice is wasted on “The Sheriff” instead of “Lucky Man”. What is the explanation for this?

RB: Well both of these are Trent’s tracks so I don't know the answers. I can say that this was presented to me as a players album. They wanted to put out a CD of demanding playing. I would have loved to mess up “Lucky Man” a bit though. “Hoedown” is the closest to an old ELP top 40 hit. This is an intense album.

AAJ: How did you personally first discover the music of ELP? Can you recollect the first time you heard them and the circumstances?

RB: When I was in jr. high school my dad sold Vox amps and Thomas organs. Thomas was a very advanced company for the time and was starting to experiment with the Moog synthesizer. My dad got one of the first single keyboard Thomas Moogs called a Satellite. I got to use it in my band and the only song on the radio with one was “Lucky Man”. So I learned the end solo and have been an ELP fan ever since. Bought my fair share of Moog products over the years too.

AAJ: Did listening to ELP prompt you to explore new musical directions (jazz, classical, other prog) ? If so, what?

RB: I really believe that the Beatles got me into progressive music. I think they were the first prog band. I had 8 years of classical piano and 2 years of jazz piano lessons through high school. My mom and dad had a big band when I was very little so I just grew up listening to everything. To this day at my studio Soundtek I record all kinds of music and am fortunate to get to play all kinds of music.

AAJ: What have you learned from listening to ELP? What have you learned from working with Emerson and Palmer? What have you learned from these and this project that will affect your own music in the future?

RB: Since I had a pretty extensive classical training I learned the importance of joining the classical composers together with rock from ELP. True progressive music is not the heavy metal prog that has been popular for the last few years. It is rock based on movements and tonalities more like a symphony. Different colors, moods and harmonies melted together. ELP was the best at this. From working with Keith and Carl I was able to let loose of the constraints that record companies had put on me for years. The companies always said 'let's make a hit record''. Keith and Carl always said ' let's make music'. This album reminded me that a great progressive song has depth and precision. Not just a bunch of parts strung together.

AAJ: Most rock listeners that this interviewer knows are typically and remarkably intolerant to “reworking the classics” (unless it’s the original artist doing the reworking). How would you respond to the following: “Why should I listen to this when I can hear the originals?”

RB: There are many musicians out there that have been influenced by ELP. We just happen to have some of the great ones on this CD. That Keith and Carl like most of this album is a good endorsement. But even more important, the musicians on this album share the same respect for the talents of the players in ELP that your readers do. To listen to the intricacies of this recording is truly an amazing listening experience. Check out Jordan's playing on “Karn Evil #9” in headphones. It is incredible. All the playing is superb. I think the arrangements highlight and accentuate the best of ELP's writing.

AAJ: Many postulate that there have been far too many tribute recordings. The trend is often cited as unhealthy for two reasons: a) it’s indicative of a lack of vitality, viability, creativity, or innovation in contemporary musicians b) the commercial success of tribute recordings economically dilutes the market and distracts listeners from a number of musicians doing original work (work more deserving to be heard) How would you respond to these?

RB: I get tired of theories. One thing I have learned is that in music you just have to do what you feel. Go for that inspired take. No matter what you do some will like it and some will hate it. Yes, there are too many tributes. Especially the ones that do a note for note copy. Who cares about that??? But when you add a new twist and still retain the integrity of the original then it is an exercise in respect, musicianship and creativity. I think this is worth a listen. If nothing else it will make Keith, Greg and Carl a little publishing money. It always feels good to help out a poor musician. All kidding aside, I would love to hear from your readers the positive comments and the negative ones. I learn something from all of it. I would especially like to hear which tracks they like best and least. Trent and I took very different approaches producing our tracks. He wrote new material and I worked with the original score. I used all live musicians and he did some sequencing mixed with live musicians. I think the mix together makes a great album.

AAJ: As a follow up, does it disturb you that more people may hear (and purchase) this cd than might hear (and purchase) your solo cd “Pilgrimage To A Point” ?

RB: No. What is a good thing for me is that listeners are listening to music I played and sang on along with some of the best musicians in this kind of music. Hopefully they will access my web site and purchase “Pilgrimage…” and get to hear more of what I do. I have songs on there that were written for the unreleased 2nd album for 3 and also the unreleased 2nd album for GTR. Also a track that was written for ELP after 3 broke up. These songs truly show my vision for those bands and the kind of original work I am capable of. But the bottom line is if they get the ELP tribute and like it then I have fueled my sickness for a little longer.

AAJ: Are there any particular properties or qualities on this disc that you’re most proud of ? If so, what are they?

RB: I especially like the way the bass and drums locked and gave these tracks a groove. That is something the original ELP music didn't even consider. I also really like what Marc Bonilla did on the guitar work for “Tarkus”. That song should not have been last on the CD (one of my minor complaints).

AAJ: In conclusion, what future projects can we expect from Robert Berry? Rumor has it you might be considering scores and soundtracks for games?

RB: I have done some work for Miramax films on some of their new movie trailers. I will continue to do that. I have completed the soundtrack to the CD-ROM game “Wheel of Time” by Legend Entertainment. This was written and recorded with Celtic rock musician Leif Sorbye of the band Tempest. I also have a straight rock band featuring the guitarist from Boston, Gary Pihl, the keyboardist from Nightranger, Alan Fitzgerald, and the drummer from Sammy Hagar’s band, David Lauser. We are called Alliance and have a record deal in Europe and Japan. This is just fun to do. I have a new solo prog album in the works but that may change to a band effort soon. Other than that I am in the studio producing everyday. Between that and 2 small children and a lovely wife I keep quite busy.