By Allen Huotari

It’s difficult to summarize Simon Phillips career without resorting to cliché phrases in music journalism. The problem is, they’re all true.

AAJ reviewer Glenn Astarita has phrased it succinctly: “Simon Phillips can do it all.” Ordinarily this could be interpreted as mere hyperbole except that Phillips’ immediately identifiable style as a drummer and highly regarded abilities as an experienced studio musician have led him to work with a Who’s Who of jazz and rock music, touring and/or recording with Jeff Beck, Jack Bruce, Stanley Clarke, Gil Evans, Mike Oldfield, Peter Gabriel, Mick Jagger, and Pete Townshend (no pun intended).

For many musicians, being employed by luminaries would be a career in itself. But not for Simon Phillips. As a result, Phillips’ is also hard at work making his own music, and has recently released his first recording as a leader since 1995’s “Symbiosis”.

On this latest release, “ANOTHER LIFETIME” (Magna Carta), Simon Phillips further solidifies his reputation as “one of the planet’s most versatile and explosive drummers” in addition to demonstrating his “inventive and keen composing skills” (see AAJ review in “Fusion” by Glenn Astarita). Aided and abetted by veterans Ray Russell (guitar, additional composition) and Anthony Jackson (bass), Phillips’ band is robustly and capably filled out with Andy Timmons (guitar), Wendell Brooks (saxophone), Peter Michael Escovedo (percussion) and Jeff Babko (keyboards). “ANOTHER LIFETIME” offers up “extraordinary soloing and interplay among the band” as well as “high marks for strong compositional development” on “what may be Phillips’ finest solo release to date” (Astarita).

AAJ is pleased to present this interview with Simon Phillips, who graciously took the time to answer questions about his career (past, present and future) via e-correspondence from Warsaw, Poland, where he was with Toto in the midst of their world tour.

Special thanks and acknowledgements to: AAJ’s Glenn Astarita for suggesting this project; Bill Duhigg for insightful contributions to the questions; and to Mark at Chipster P.R. for facilitating the interview.

SIMON PHILLIPS INTERVIEW

ALL ABOUT JAZZ: Apocryphal anecdotes document that your father (bandleader Sid Phillips) “discovered” you while playing pot and pans in the kitchen at age 3. Certainly you were exposed to music at an early age, and clearly you must have been encouraged to develop your skills. But were you also steered in any particular direction? What other musical instruments were in the home? Were you simply and naturally attracted to the drums?

SIMON PHILLIPS: "There was a piano and my father's clarinet, otherwise that was it. However he rehearsed the band in the house and that's where it all started. He had just recruited a new drummer and set the band up differently so the first instrument I stumbled into when I walked into the room was the drum kit – and that was it!!!"

AAJ: At age 8 you began taking drum instruction from Max Abrams. What lessons were learned here that you still apply in your career?

SP: "He taught me to read music. He also taught me the discipline of playing music. There was hardly any technical tuition. I don't think my father thought that was so important - I guess he knew that would develop naturally – the important thing was to play music with other musicians and be part of the ensemble"

AAJ: What else can you tell AAJ regarding musical memories from your early childhood?

SP: "I grew up listening to Benny Goodman, Artie Shaw, Fats Waller, Bob Crosby - all favourites of my mother, and also my father's music. We had literally hundreds of 78s of his band dating from the 30s. Also records of Bert Ambrose who my father used to arrange for and played in. On top of that a smattering of classical music which my parents loved - I was not too impressed however. There was very little pop or rock music in the house - my father just never got it!"

AAJ: Many AAJ readers probably first heard your distinctive style from your work on 801 LIVE (in 1976) with “progressive/avant-rock stars” Phil Manzanera (Quiet Sun, Roxy Music), Brian Eno, Bill MacCormick (Quiet Sun, Matching Mole) and Francis Monkman (Curved Air). Pretty heavy company for someone not quite 20 years old. How did this association come about ?

SP: "I started playing sessions in London in '73 and slowly built up a reputation. I played 1 track on Robert Palmer's "Sneakin' Sally Though The Alley" due to the engineer that was working on another record I was doing (Dana Gillespie) recommending me. And that is how it works. By '76 I was a seasoned session musician in London and one of the sessions I played was on a Phil Manzanera solo record in '75 (or early '76 - can't remember). When it was time to put "801" together Phil asked to do it."

AAJ: The bulk of your career in the ’70’s was spent in recording innumerable sessions. Reminiscing about these sessions and the opportunities they presented in the educational experience of a young musician would probably require an entirely separate interview. From this work, what did you learn about how to record and how NOT to record?

SP: "I was interested in recording from a very early age (my mother owned 2 Revox A-37 recorders) and I used to record my kit - in stereo - in the 60s, so going into studios was educational for 2 reasons - 1 for the main reason I was there - to play music, and secondly to learn about all the different microphones, consoles and techniques of recording. It is just a long learning experience and really you learn from the things that don't go so well and gain confidence when they do. The other thing is that there are many ways to make a record – and some you may disagree with at the time but you learn a different method and that comes in handy in the future. The other thing to remember is the ever changing development of equipment - there was always something new to try out."

AAJ: The 70’s culminated in extensive work with Jack Bruce and Jeff Beck. For many musicians, this would be the pinnacle of their career, for you it was simply the beginning. This interviewer is unsure where to start in asking about this phase of your development, but AAJ readers will understandably be indignant if this work is not discussed. What would you like to tell AAJ about working with these legendary musicians?

SP: "1976 was indeed a big year - it was a year when I broke out of the session scene and joined a band (not including a band I was in in '74 with Ray Russell as it happens). The first was "801" and secondly "The Jack Bruce Band". We were signed to RSO records. Playing with Jack was instant - the moment we started running a song it just worked. it was that wonderful mixture of playing rock music with a jazz mentality. I think I learnt so much from Jack during the 2 years that band was together and it is great when we get together now and play - which is rare - the last time being in '93 for his 50th birthday concert in Köln. Funnily enough I am in Warsaw now with Toto and the last time I was here was with Jack in '92 - same hall. Jeff Beck gave me the opportunity to write for him together with Tony Hymas (who was also in Jack's band). Together we wrote most of the songs on "There & Back" and really that is where my composition style started. Again playing with Jeff was so natural and it was wonderful to be able to play that music throughout the US, Japan and Europe. Last time I played with Jeff was in '93 when we wrote some music for "Blue Chips" movie soundtrack."

AAJ: Is Tony Williams an inspiration or musical influence or career model for you in any fashion?

SP: "Totally. I first met Tony when "The Jack Bruce Band" played San Francisco in 1977. Jack introduced me and we spoke a little bit - I of course new Tony's playing well. We met over the years in different circumstances - at Montreux Jazz Festival in '83 - I was with Gil Evans and RMS - he with VSOP, at a jazz festival near Frankfurt in '84 - I was on tour with Mike Oldfield and I took some of the band to see Jack play with Tony and David Sancious, and then in '85 we both played at the Zildjian Day in Dallas and I guess that's where we really got to spend some time together. The last time I saw him was at the NAMM show in '95 and he spoke to me with a cockney English accent - which of course was hilarious. I love his playing and when I get stuck for inspiration all I have to do is listen to him"

AAJ: As your reputation spreads, the 80’s sees continued session and tours, including work with Pete Townshend, Stanley Clarke, and Mick Jagger. Clearly, your talents as a drummer were in high demand. In these situations, were you allowed to play whatever you wanted or were you essentially hired as a mercenary? If the former, were you asked or encouraged to contribute musical observations or criticisms of your “employers” during the recording sessions? Were you able to influence the music other than simply contributing your drumming skills?

SP: "I was always pretty anarchic when recording - I think that's what Pete Townshend used to like. I guess it's a careful mixture of playing what the song needs and also adding some spice to it. I would never play the obvious - I always wanted to put a twist to it - however subtle. But also when people hire you to play on their record they are also hiring your experience of making records - not just your playing. I pretty much have always played what I wanted in a song - as long as it worked. Sometimes I contributed a lot to the song arrangement wise."

AAJ: You’ve made several recordings with Mike Oldfield. In many ways, the work with Oldfield seems to have been an unlikely and idiosyncratic collaboration. What did you learn from working from Oldfield and what do you think he learned from you?

SP: "That was really a breakthrough for me as I was co-producer and co-engineer on "Crises", "Discovery" and "Islands". Mike basically taught me how to engineer. I think Mike wanted a break from engineering to be able to sit back and listen to the record from a different perspective - but he had a hard time with most engineers - he likes a musician’s approach to balance and sounds. As I was technically minded anyway and was always interested in engineering it worked out well. I learnt an incredible amount from Mike and in fact he really showed me the way for starting a solo career. After we finished "Islands" in '87, I was inspired to start writing music for my first solo record where I played all the instruments - being keyboards (with the help of a sequencer) and drums. I think I introduced a more R&B feel to his music and a little jazz as well - but subtly!"

AAJ: The 90’s see you fronting your own band (Protocol) and relocating to the States. What new challenges and opportunities were enabled by these career moves?

SP: "The major change in my career, after all those years of trying, is joining a band and I have been in this band now for 7 years. That changed my approach to my career. Also playing with Steve Lukather in Los Lobotomys (another ongoing band) and touring so much enabled me to meet the right people and get into the right mindset to front a band. I guess having been a session musician in UK in the 70s I didn't really want to do that again but also the business has changed - there are far fewer sessions now. I had the opportunity to really change the way my career worked and so I did and it has worked out wonderfully. I have a wonderful band - great guys and great musicians. We have toured Europe extensively and a little in Japan. My previous record "Symbiosis" received a Jazz Award in Germany so I am pretty happy with the way it is going."

AAJ: In 1992, you joined Toto (replacing the late Jeff Porcaro). You’re about to embark on the worldwide Toto Reunion Tour. Many AAJ readers would be puzzled by the decision to participate in Toto and might cynically assume it to be a mere commercial opportunity (not that there’s anything wrong in making a few extra bucks). Furthermore, while many AAJ readers would not deny the musicianship present in Toto, many would quickly dismiss any artistic merit in the band’s music. Do you need to justify or explain your decision to join Toto? How have you responded to any critical derision in this regard?

SP: "Most people regard Toto as a very musical band. The thing is I can play many styles - and enjoy playing different kinds of music. I see it all as Western music - whether it be Rock, R & B, Jazz, Fusion whatever - it still uses the same 12 notes and can easily move through different keys! However - Eastern music is a whole different arena - in most cases if you change key you have to retune the whole instrument - bummer!! But I really enjoy listening to that music when I get the chance. As for Toto - playing rock music is a big part of my life and is very natural – however I enjoy playing "straight ahead" acoustic jazz which I do from time to time in LA at a local club. In fact I have a band with Jeff Babko (Piano) and Dave Carpenter (Upright Bass), Trumpet/Flugelhorn and Tenor/Alto/Soprano for which Jeff and I have written music specially." .

AAJ: Have the physical ailments from 1995 (back problems and blood poisoning) had any long-term effects to your style of playing? If so, what?

SP: "No - I seem to have recovered fully from that - thankfully"

AAJ: How have the instructional videos been received?

SP: "Incredibly well. It's funny because DCI first asked me to do one in 1982 and I declined. They kept on asking throughout the 80s and I still said no! It wasn't until 1991 that I had the inclination to make one. I had just come up with a concept that seemed to work - and it did."

AAJ: Out of the countless recordings you’ve appeared on, are there any you wish you could forget or that you wish people would ignore? On the other hand, which recordings do you wish more people had heard ? Which recordings do you feel are unjustly unknown ? Which recordings are you most proud of?

SP: "I have probably forgotten anything I disliked - and I am sure there are many that should have been heard that weren't. But that's the business we are in - the record business which is unfathomable sometimes. As for the ones I am proud of - "801", "There & Back", "Rocks, Pebbles & Sand" (Stanley Clarke), "Empty Glass" and "White City" (Pete Townshend) - I am sure there are more but right now I can't think of them."

AAJ: Who would you like to work for that you’ve never worked with before? Who would you like to collaborate with?

SP: "I always wanted to play with Weather Report and I would love to play with Joe Zawinul one day. I would like to work more with Peter Gabriel."

AAJ: What do you feel your own limitations as a drummer or composer are? In what areas would you most like to improve?

SP: "All of them! You never stop learning and it is funny, even though I have played professionally for 30 years, sometimes I still feel like it's pretty new and I wish I had more experience."

AAJ: In such a varied and diverse career, what next and what’s left for Simon Phillips to accomplish?

SP: "I love writing music and that is basically what I do when I go home after a tour or am not making a record. I will start writing music for my next record after this tour with Toto. I have just finished mixing a live record of my solo European Tour in '98. I also would like to write for other artists and have started to do a little of that. I would really like to play the states with my band - it is such a slammin' band - I hope you get to hear it - LIVE!"

AAJ: Thanks, Simon Phillips, for sharing your time with AAJ!