By Allen Huotari

The old saying “you can take the boy out of the country, but you can’t take the country out of the boy” has generally meant that someone raised in a rural setting will inevitably reveal his or her lack of sophistication when placed in a “refined” metropolitan environment.

Of course, if being a “nice guy” and making oneself readily accessible to aspiring musicians when approached for advice or instruction is indicative of a lack of breeding or social grace, then drummer/composer Matt Wilson is, without question, one raw and uncouth dude.

The jazz press has made much of the fact that Matt Wilson is from the Midwestern United States (born Sep. 27, 1964 and raised in Knoxville, Illinois) but to the extent, in some instances, that one is led to believe being born in America’s heartland is tantamount to some crippling handicap that has to be overcome in order to achieve success.

However, the simple fact is that Matt Wilson’s “midwesterness” is inseparable from himself and his music and is precisely what makes both of these so down to earth (yes, this “soil” reference is entirely purposeful, please forgive me) and refreshing. Bringing a non-elitist attitude to the fore and ardently believing that improvisation can be cherished by both jazz aficionados and the populist set, his music gleefully, and at times giddily, veers suddenly from the avant-garde to the traditional and back again.

After being schooled in music at Wichita State University, Mr. Wilson moved to Boston in 1987, where over the next five years his renown was initially established via work with the Either/Orchestra, keyboardist John Medeski, and saxophonist Charlie Kohlhase. Relocation to New York in the autumn of 1992 led to bringing his talent to a pre-eminent position through playing regularly with saxophonists Dewey Redman and Lee Konitz, and bassist Cecil McBee, being named the New York Jazz Critic's Circle “Best New Artist of 1997”, having his first outing as leader, AS WAVE FOLLOWS WAVE (Palmetto, 1996), selected for “best of the year” lists by Billboard, the New York Times, Boston Phoenix, and Boston Globe, and most recently being hailed by Downbeat magazine as one of 25 jazz artists under the age of 40 to watch for. Appearing on over 60 recordings over the last 10 years (please refer to “selected discography” below), and having toured extensively throughout the world, Matt Wilson’s exuberance, zeal, affability, and flair for musical invention has rightfully earned him the reputation of enhancing any project with which he involved.

In addition to being an accomplished performer, Mr. Wilson is also capable teacher. Besides being an adjunct faculty member at New York’s New School, and being on the visiting artist faculty at University of Northern Iowa, he has conducted numerous workshops which have included teaching fundamental techniques of improvisation to children’s bands and ensembles.

The instruction for many of these workshops has been administered by the Matt Wilson Quartet, which features Andrew D'Angelo (alto sax, bass clarinet), Joel Frahm (tenor and soprano sax), and Yosuke Inoue (bass). This critically lauded group has recently released their second recording (Matt Wilson’s third as a leader), the appropriately titled SMILE (Palmetto). Smile is exactly what the listener will do upon hearing this disc, whether it is the gentle smile of satisfaction and contentment in acknowledgement of grace and beauty, the knowing smile that results from appreciation of subtle wit, or the smile of laughter as the consequence of being surprised by a joke. Of SMILE , AAJ Modern Jazz Editor Glenn Astarita writes:

“Wilson’s new release titled SMILE is a tour de force with strong soloing from the twin saxophones of Frahm and D’Angelo…Wilson is in turbo mode behind the kit as he swings, prods and pushes his bandmates into some playful mayhem…Good-natured antics along with serious if not mind bending soloing and ensemble work is the key.”

As simple summary, the Matt Wilson Quartet is having a lot of fun. The pure thrill they enjoy from making music is exuded from this recording. They’d love to share that with you. Just listen.

Matt Wilson graciously consented to an interview with All About Jazz to coincide with the release of SMILE . This interview was conducted via e-mail in early September 1999.

Thanks to Anne Braithwaite of Braithwaite and Katz Communications for facilitating the interview.

ALL ABOUT JAZZ: Why, what, when, or who inspired you to choose to play the drums?

MATT WILSON: I saw Buddy Rich on “The Lucy Show” when I was about 7 years old. That sparked an interest and the summer between 2nd and 3rd grade I bought some sticks and started fooling around. I played duets with my brother, a tenor saxophonist, at PTA and 4H meetings. Later in junior high I heard the record BUDDY RICH VS. MAX ROACH and Max flipped me out (still does!).

AAJ: As a follow up, is the sheer tactile sensation of playing drums critical to you? If so, to what degree does it manifest itself in your music?

MW: Maybe very early on it did, music is more important to me than the physical act of pulling off some drumistic act. Though I admit it is an incredible buzz to feel so connected to an instrument that I can use to sing through. It is so much fun!

AAJ: Who would you say has influenced your styles as a composer and as drummer? How and/or why?

MW: It is hard narrow it down but I’ll try. For the drums I am influenced by the people who have the ability to really sing on the instrument. Max, Billy Higgins, Ed Blackwell, Frankie Dunlop, Roy Haynes, Paul Motian, Milford Graves, Jack DeJohnette, Dennis Charles, Tony Williams, Joey Baron, Shelly Manne, Elvin Jones, Sid Catlett, Art Blakey (I could go on for an hour or two). As a composer I am influenced by all the great musicians and composers I have had the opportunity to work with and all the music I have heard since I was a child. I draw upon so many influences. I have to note that great drummers who also compose (Jack DeJohnette, Joey Baron, Joe Chambers, Paul Motian, Peter Erskine, Louie Bellson, etc.) made me realize “Hey, I should be doing this, it sounds like a whole lot of fun!” I enjoy all kinds of music and that seems to somehow seep into what I write.

AAJ: Do you feel the need to hide or obscure your influences so as to avoid imitativeness? If so, how or what do you do to accomplish this? If not, why not?

MW: No, I mean I never really imitated any one person exclusively. I was, for example, never a Steve Gadd clone though I think he is awesome. If a person plays who they are, it is the best for the music. I have so many influences that I believe they have become a mixing pot that has become my own. I felt I had a sound as a young player. I encourage students to do the same. It changes as you grow, which is cool, but I do not feel that there is a step by step “rites of passion” that you go through and than one day you are granted “your sound!”

AAJ: Many non-musical factors can contribute to inspiring a musician: visual stimuli (literature, cinema, sculpture, painting, nature), family, maybe even food. Is there any one catalytic element that seems to provide you with the most inspiration?

MW: If a person stays aware and open to experiences, anything at anytime may influence a person’s work. Poetry was the basis for “As Wave Follows Wave” & “A Dusting Of Snow”. A newspaper story was the inspiration for “Schoolboy Thug”. My beautiful daughter inspired “Daymaker”. Playing in marching band prompted “Go Team Go!” Food for “Free Range Chicken”, etc. Music should express your life experiences. You may meet a person on the break at a gig who inspires you. Again when you wake up in the morning you never know what is going to influence you. That is what so exciting!

AAJ: Could you define or interpret the following terms and explain how they may or may not apply to your music: “swing”, “groove”, “playing open”, “playing out” (Note: I ask because it seems these terms are increasingly lacking in standardization. Whereas they were once partially objective they are now mostly subjective)

MW: Swing - a big round beat that has forward energy. Also an attitude, music with no tempo can swing like crazy. In technical terms for all the musicologists out there, it is all in the quarter note baby!

Groove - all the elements coming together and becoming one. A life force unto itself.

Playing open - approaching the music with no preconceived intentions. Letting it happen, not "making" it happen. Can apply to freely improvised or standard forms.

Playing out - I do not know really, isn’t it subjective? I prefer playing open to playing out. “Playing out” often times seems forced as if to play something that no one wants to hear, which is cool too if it is truly in the moment. “Playing free” means to some as playing noise or ugly, but I think of it as a whole spectrum of emotions and sounds. Free music can swing, groove, make someone laugh, cry or be irritable. It is not just what I call the old “fire in the pet store” syndrome.

AAJ: From your experiences as a teacher, it would seem you believe that “energy” or “enthusiasm” is perhaps more important to creativity in improvisation than instrumental technique. Do you feel that other creative intangibles such as unity, respect for others, unselfishness or self-discipline, and careful listening can be effectively taught? If so, what methods might you apply to instill these values?

MW: I am not the kind of person who salivates over pure technical prowess but I believe all great musicians have developed the mechanical skills to allow the instrument to be their creative voice. Look at the approaches of, let’s say, Wynton Marsalis and Lester Bowie. They are both amazing musicians with their own sounds and concepts. They have developed what they feel they need to be themselves. What prevents people from truly opening up is fear. They are afraid to really let it hang. If you allow them to discard what has been conditioned in them to be “correct” and let them go, amazing music happens. I try to have them try things and fail as perhaps the impetus to develop their craft versus developing all these skills and one day going “now I can apply this to improvisation”. The two work hand in hand naturally. If you have all the ideas in the world and cannot get them to flow through you and the instrument its time to work on the craft. Likewise if you can play fast, loud, etc. and cannot sing a song on your axe, well, time to work on the emotion department. The other important factors are awareness, trust and the ability to hear. I feel to hear is a much deeper form of listening. Do you listen or do you hear?

AAJ: How often, if ever, do you think about what you’re doing? Do you feel you are more of an intuitive musician than a “thinking” musician? I.e., instinctual as opposed to methodical? Why or why not?

MW: I try to avoid if at all possible. If a thought comes in I try to play with it rather than fight it off. I feel I am an intuitive musician when I am playing and a thinking one when I am not.

AAJ: As follow ups (and assuming you consider yourself instinctual) do you think intuitive and instinctual music making techniques can be taught? Or is intuition/instinct only gained/learned through experience? Is intuition/instinct inextricably linked to listening skills? Or is intuition/instinct solely a measure of confidence and self-assurance? (which may or may not be gained through sheer technical capability?)

MW: Intuition is developed through experiencing as much as you can and having those experiences become a part of yourself. Every time I play I am putting more in my intuition savings account. I learn each time I play. Life presents you with these gifts constantly, unfortunately it is not always pleasant. Again it is about awareness, trust and hearing.

AAJ: How do you believe you’ve learned to be adventurous or to be unafraid of risk or mistakes?

MW: I realized early to just go for and not be afraid of the unexpected but dance with it. That takes having developed confidence, etc. But throughout my life I have not been afraid to be a fool. I sometimes wonder what big event people are saving it up for. Jack Lemmon said to be a good actor you had to not be afraid to walk in a room naked, circle the room, and walk out. I will spare everyone out here the naked part (there are numerous websites for that) but I really try to remain brave and have a fun time!

AAJ: Who is usually more demanding of you, yourself or your fellow musicians? Why?

MW: Both are demanding. I am part of the team and I feel obligated to be there and ready to let it happen. If I am doubting myself I am not purely contributing. Again awareness and trust come into light.

AAJ: As a follow-up, what are some of the demands or expectations you place upon yourself?

MW: Know the music, make a good sound, be fearless, let the flow happen and make people feel great about being there. Do my absolute best to make others sound great which, in turn, makes the big picture more panoramic. Be trusting and aware.

AAJ: What characteristics do you most value in fellow musicians? How do Messrs. D’Angelo, Frahm, and Inoue fulfill these?

MW: The above. They are extraordinary. That is why it is so much fun and I love them so much. The dudes rule!

AAJ: How and to what degree have your musical relationships with Messrs. D’ Angelo, Frahm, and Inoue formed or defined your sound and style? (The sense of the question is not necessarily how they’ve influenced you but perhaps instead altered, affected, or modified your approach to making music.)

MW: I have discovered the importance of allowing what ever is going to happen to happen. You cannot control the situation and one cannot, or should not, control the musicians. You have them there because you love what they do. Let them do it!

AAJ: Have you found that your confidence and trust in their abilities gives you the confidence to push yourself beyond what you might ordinarily be capable of? In what ways?

MW: Definitely. It is incredibly inspiring to be a part of the wonderful sound. It that doesn’t push a person they might want to check their pulse to see if they are alive. Call 911 !

AAJ: When recording, which has been more important to you: capturing the “moment” or achieving technical perfection?

MW: The moment for sure. Capturing that is achieving technical perfection in the broadest sense.

AAJ: As a sideman, which performances or recordings have been the most fun, most enjoyable, or most memorable? Which have been the most demanding? Among the many talented musicians you've worked with who has presented you with the most challenging and/or synergistic relationship? Who have you learned the most from working with? What is it you’ve learned from the above?

MW: Well it is hard to pinpoint that. I try to find the positive in every situation. I love some pearls of wisdom the great Mel Lewis once relayed to me. He said “I don’t have bad nights, just better nights than others.” I subscribe to that outlook. Every time I get to play it’s cool and I don’t take these blessed opportunities for granted. I mean is it really such a horrible existence to get up early, make a flight, drive two hours, and play a concert for nice people? I think it is more appealing than moving furniture up to fifth floor walkup on the hottest day of the summer. I have been fortunate to play with stellar musicians who are so inspiring and giving. Playing in bands of legends like Dewey Redman, Lee Konitz, Cecil McBee has been an invaluable experience. Just as motivational is being surrounded by a plethora of incredibly talented peers. I am constantly amazed by what I hear. I feel really connected to many musicians. I am proud of the rapport Dewey Redman and I have developed over the last 5 years. It is always special to play with Lee Konitz and Cecil McBee’s energy is infectious. I have learned a lot from Fred Hersch, Joanne Brackeen. Again, I could list until I am blue in the face or taken up too much space on some reader’s hard drive.

AAJ: What musicians do you most admire or respect that you have NOT worked with? Why? (or what musicians would you most like to work with that you've never worked with before? Why?)

MW: Steve Lacy, Tim Berne, Geri Allen, Tommy Flanagan, Horace Silver, Jane Ira Bloom, Don Byron, Willie Nelson, Charlie Haden, Ornette Coleman, Robert Cray, Mulgrew Miller, Branford Marsalis, Joe Lovano, Ellery Eskelin, Bill Frisell, Ray Brown, Emmylou Harris, Neil Young, Matthew Shipp, Jimmy Smith, George Jones, Mal Waldron and the list goes on and on and on. I would love to play with so many. I am fascinated by anyone who has developed a sound and concept no matter what style or genre it is. I am excited about some upcoming gigs where I get to play with some folks I have been wanting to experience for a long time.

AAJ: What recordings by other musicians have you heard lately that have excited you?

MW: As far as jazz records anything by Dave Douglas and Bill Frisell, Jerome Harris’ new record is awesome. Stephon Harris and Jason Moran ‘s records have a vibe. Same with Osby’s. Loved Tom Varner’s Americana record, Ben Allison’s THIRD EYE is great. Dennis Charles last cd is classic! Love Tim Berne’s Screwgun Records. Avishai Cohen’s music is wonderful. Tim Hagens latest is rockin'. I really dig Brad Mehldau’s records. Brian Blade and Bill Stewart’s records are captivating. Heard Chick’s origin recording and loved it. Larry Golding’s new one on Palmetto is gorgeous. I had a busy summer so I want to get caught up and get the new records by Ben Perowsky, Ellery Eskelin, Ethan Iverson, Myra Melford, Joe Farnsworth, Scott Colley. I wish there was more time in the day!

AAJ: What is the most meaningful compliment you’ve ever received as a musician?

MW: “It sure was fun to play with you!”

AAJ: What else can we expect from Matt Wilson in 1999-2000?

MW: Right now I am into getting out there even more with my band. I want bring it to the people. Set up shop at the local community center, library, high school, Grange hall, etc. I have a goal to develop an audience by letting the public experience the music first hand. Let them decide, not the industry. The industry loves to decide who likes what, when, where, and how. In my travels I have realized that people just want to be included. When given the opportunity, people in more remote areas love it! Also exposing it to young audiences so we have someone to play for in 20 years. Otherwise I want to spend quality time with my family, compose for new projects I have in the works. Play with as many people as possible and put out a solo record.

Thanks Matt for spending time with All About Jazz!

Matt Wilson Selected Discography

as leader
AS WAVE FOLLOWS WAVE (Palmetto)
GOING ONCE, GOING TWICE (Palmetto)
SMILE (Palmetto)

as sideman
since 1989, I have appeared on over 60 cds. Here are some of my favorites - MW
Dewey Redman LIVE IN LONDON (Palmetto)
Cecil McBee UNSPOKEN (Palmetto)
Lee Konitz STRINGS FOR HOLIDAY (Enja)
Charlie Kohlhase Quintet RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT (Accurate)
Charlie Kohlhase Quintet DART NIGHT (Accurate)
Charlie Kohlhase Quintet GOOD DEEDS (Accurate)
Charlie Kohlhase Quintet DANCING ON MY BEDPOST (CIMP)
Either/Orchestra CALCULUS OF PLEASURE (Accurate)
Either/Orchestra THE BRUNT (Accurate)
Either/Orchestra ACROSS THE OMNIVERSE (Accurate)
Joel Frahm SORRY NO DECAF (Palmetto)
Pete McCann PARABLE (Palmetto)
Palmetto All-Stars THE OTHER SIDE OF ELLINGTON: DUKE'S MOTIVATION (Palmetto)
Dominique Eade WHEN THE WIND WAS COOL (RCA/BMG)
Misako Kano WATCH OUT (Knitting Factory)
Mario Pavone Nu TRIO FOR THOMAS (Knitting Factory)
Vic Juris PASTELS (Steeplechase)
Don Friedman ALMOST EVERYTHING (Steeplechase)
Mary Larose WALKING WOMAN (GM Recordings)
Yosuke Inoue SPEAK UP (Baybridge)
Garrison Fewell A BLUE DEEPER THAN BLUE (Accurate)
Janis Seigal TENDER TRAP (Monarch)
Bevan Manson RHYTHM CHOWDER (Iris)
Gris More/Scea Group JUST PLAY (Accurate)
Gris More/Scea Group OF WHAT (Accurate)
Martin Wind Family (A Records)

In addition to the above records I am excited about the upcoming releases I played on by: Dave Liebman, Sam Newsome, Michael Blake, Bill Mays, Jasper Blom, Michael Cox, Andy Biskin, and Steve Kirby – MW.