By Jason West

Mike Stern’s latest release, PLAY, can be divided into three parts: three tunes featuring John Scofield, four tunes featuring Bill Frisell, and three tunes with Stern and his working band which includes Bob Malach on tenor sax, Lincoln Goines on electric bass, and Dennis Chambers on drums. (Producer, Jim Beard plays keyboards and Ben Perowsky plays drums on a number of tracks.)

In spite of its obvious divisions, PLAY sounds seamless because Stern wrote two-thirds of the music especially for fellow guitarists Scofield and Frisell. Knowing what would sound best for his friends, Mike's personal touch comes through, just as it has throughout Stern’s career that began with Blood, Sweat, and Tears in the seventies and took off with Miles Davis in the early eighties—presently spanning nine releases as a headliner on Atlantic Records.

Stern's dedication and consideration also comes through in the following interview, conducted over the phone, as Mike spoke to me from his Manhattan apartment.

All About Jazz: Was some of this recorded out here in Seattle?

Mike Stern: Yeah, some of the tracks were recorded at Studio Litho. One thing that made it a little bit difficult this time was to get everybody together. I sometimes couldn’t get the engineer that I wanted for the whole project. So I had to use engineers at different studios. So I used an engineer in Seattle who is great, and the studio was really cool; it’s a really relaxed atmosphere, kind of perfect for this project. In New York I recorded at Avatar. This is the first time I’ve ever recorded one of my CDs outside of New York. It was kind of scary, too, and I just went for it because Bill Frisell lives out in Seattle. He had suggested that studio and I thought, well Bill’s got to know what he’s talking about (laughter) and he did, as usual. I just flew the bass player, drummer and producer out there with frequent flyer miles, which I’ve got a lot of because I travel all the time--never get to see any of it--but I know every airport incredibly well. (laughter)

AAJ: Does your touring schedule ever take you to Seattle?

MS: Well we just played not to long ago out there at the Ballard Firehouse, and it was really fun, it was a great vibe, really cool place to play. And hopefully I’m going to do something like that coming up because this CD was supposed to have been done around that time--that was in the spring--and I wasn’t able to get it together because of scheduling everybody and all that stuff, to mix it. It was actually recorded really quickly. It was like a day and a half with Bill Frisell and a day with John Scofield and one other day with the band. So it kind of went down really quickly, but then the mixing and the scheduling with everybody else, you know, sometimes it’s hard to get everybody together, and the studio wasn’t available that we wanted to mix at, so we kind of had to put it on hold. So I toured before the release of the CD, which is a new concept. (laughter) I don’t advise it. But, actually it was fine and I’m touring all the time anyways, and it’s great to play in the States as hard as it is. In fact it’s harder to play in the States just because in Europe, for instance, there’s more funding for festivals and stuff like that, a little bit more opportunity over there. They’ve always been like that with the Arts in general, jazz included, and all kinds of music included, painting, theater groups. There’s just more culture, and more tax dollars. It’s in their history and they value it, and so there’s a little bit more opportunity over there. But I love playing in the States, so I try to do that as much as I can, and I’m sure I’ll be out there (in Seattle) again in the spring.

AAJ: You know, to prepare for this interview, I was thinking about the guitar in the context of music, and it seems like the guitar is such an all-American instrument, you know, it pulls from R&B and jazz and country. It seems to be recognized as Americana in a way.

MS: Absolutely.

AAJ: So I want to ask you your take on your instrument.

MS: That’s really a good question. I think that what you just said is a very accurate observation and something that a lot of people don’t notice as much, especially people coming, talking about jazz, they don’t realize that the guitar is so--it’s everywhere. So that’s why some guitarists, especially Bill Frisell and John Scofield and I know this is true of myself, have styles that don’t seem foreign, even though we’re jazz musicians predominantly, other styles find their way into our music. I can speak for myself in that regard, because you hear your own instrument in all these other styles of music, and it’s kind of up front, it’s a big part of that kind of music, even if it’s an acoustic guitar backing up a country singer or something, you hear the guitar there, so it’s hard not to identify with it right away, and therefore part of that music rubs off, which is a cool thing about the guitar. I mean, being a guitarist, I think that’s a really cool thing.

AAJ: It’s very cool. It almost kind of allows a player like Bill Frisell to go to this far-out place that he’s gone, you know, he has his own thing going, and it’s not really swinging, but it’s very sonic and lyrical and it’s kind of really taking a chance, but he can do it I think because the guitar is in everyone’s ears.

MS: It’s really true. I agree with that, and I think, well partially he can do it because he’s Bill Frisell; he has such a strong musical identity. It’s very much his; it’s very personal, but it’s very strong, and it really works in a whole bunch of different contexts. He can take an untraditional approach to playing jazz but it will work in any kind of jazz context, or even in a funk kind of groove. And on a couple of the tunes on the CD, like the last tune called Big Kids--that’s a really fun tune, I mean I had a ball doing that one. It’s funny. It’s got a lot of humor in it, and the way Bill approaches it is really cool, it’s just like him, taking his style in that context, so what he comes up with is like, Wow, that’s some different shit. (laughter) It’s really neat, and I think there is a contrast between my playing and his playing that is kind of unusual and really cool. And I’ve played with him so much. We used to get together all the time and shed together when we were both living in Boston and just play standards over and over again, and that was always a treat for me. I really miss doing that on a regular basis with him, because I learned so much playing with him. And the same thing with Sco, you know, I played a bunch with him too with Miles and with a band around New York that we were both a part of, and then sometimes we just get together and play. And I haven’t been able hang with those guys that much, which was another big plus about doing this project, because I got to see those guys, and we’re really good friends. It was fun. That kind of added to the fun that, hopefully, is on the CD, because it seems like that comes through.

AAJ: I noticed that there are a fair number of blues on the CD. Talk about the blues and your thoughts on that form. What do they mean to you?

MS: I guess there’s a certain kind of vibe that comes with blues, even if it’s kind of more jazz blues. Certainly the blues that we play on this, they’re not really Chicago kind of blues. “Frizz” is a blues but it’s really kind of Monkish, kind of more quirky. Actually, on a lot of this music, I was writing while thinking about who would play on what, and there are some things that I had already started but when I realized, when Bill and Sco said they could both play on it then I kind of finished them and maybe re-wrote a couple of them thinking about, you know, Sco was going to sound great on this one and this would be good for him, you know, that kind of thing, and so “Frizz” was kind of a more quirky blues thinking of that sound of his and that personality of his. He’s got a lot of humor in his playing so that’s what that tune is kind of about, that side of Bill Frisell. It’s a blues, but not a Stevie Ray Vaughn kind of blues, although there’s a little bit of that happening because the blues always has a little bit of that Chicago stuff, even if you’re playing more jazz changes, and I dig that. There’s an earthiness about blues that right away I like and it just speaks to me. And then just logistically, trying to get together a bunch of players, you want them to really express, you want them to play, so that no one has to look at the music all the time and you don’t have much time to rehearse complicated stuff and really learn complicated stuff, so I wanted to write stuff that was interesting enough and that wasn’t like a jam session either, but it had plenty of room for that possibility to have the interplay of cats who are familiar with the stuff right away. So there are a couple of blues on there. The minor blues with me and Sco called “Play” and then there’s that kind of a second-line tune (Small World) that Sco--he plays that kind of bag great. I think that’s definitely something that he’s done a lot, and I knew that he’d sound great on something like that.

AAJ: Do you think that your personality is reflected in your music, and if it is, then how would you describe your personality and how it comes out in your music?

MS: I think it’s reflected for sure, and I think that part the direction that I go for is reflected, hopefully, I certainly try to get that happening but not consciously, I guess. I just kind of try to be true to whatever my heart goes for. So as you’ve already said, there’s a certain amount of bluesiness happening because I grew up with that musically. Listening to blues players. Listening to B.B. King or Eric Clapton and The Cream, which was not really blues but it definitely had a lot of blues in it, and Hendrix and all that stuff. And I guess that some of the stuff that I like to get happening--I like things that are kind of dramatic in music, and build. There’s a certain type of playing that I like where there’s some fire in it. I love listening to ‘Trane--and I’ve transcribed a lot of John Coltrane’s stuff--his music really hits me, you know, and I’m not alone. (laughter) I mean, it gets to a lot of people. But, he’s definitely got a lot of blues, no matter what he plays, you can hear a lot of blues in his playing, it’s very earthy, and it’s also incredibly sophisticated, it’s very intelligent, but it doesn’t sound pretentious. It sounds like he gets down at the same time, you know. It doesn’t get too cerebral, but it is amazingly cerebral--he’s always got some grit to it, which I dig. And I kind of have the same, it’s not as cerebral, but I’ve always had the same feeling about Hendrix. You know, he had that--it’s on the ground somehow, no matter where he took it, and of course it was all over the place, but still it was way up in the sky too, in a certain way, and so was he. (laughter)

AAJ: What was it like when he came on the scene and you first heard him? How did that effect you?

MS: It was really cool. You know, you don’t even notice it. I notice it more now. I might hear--somebody might play a tape and say, “Remember this?” or something like that, and I’ll listen to it and I’ll say, “Man!” It touches something in me and takes me back to when I first heard him--I guess the first record was “Are You Experienced”--but then I’m amazed at how it holds up over time. The shit is really hip, and I can listen to it now from a different vantage point and say, “Man, he was doing that stuff back then, no wonder I dug that.”

AAJ: Well, Miles was into him, and you played with Miles, and I want to ask you what it’s like for you, if you ever listen to some of that stuff like, for example, “We Want Miles.” Man. What do feel like when you hear that? Or do you listen to that?

MS: I’ll listen to it from time to time and it’s really interesting, because what will happen to me generally is when I first hear or do something, you know, either it’s on somebody else’s record or one of my own, I get just too close to it and too self-critical, and I can’t really hear what’s there, you know. It’s been a number of years since I did that so I istened to it and I thought it was like Wow--I thought it was really cool. And I remember not thinking that about every tune on there. I grew into a couple of ‘em. But then when I heard it more recently I thought Wow, and I could kind of see where Miles was coming from a lot more, which always happens to me. I think a lot of people, they kind of catch up to where Miles was. Like 15 years later they think, “Yeah, that shit was hipper than we thought it was!” (laughter) You know, I love Miles for kind of the same--I guess one of the things that always gets me is just his musical sensibility. Of course he did it better than anybody, but his emotions were--he likes a lot of fire in his playing in certain things, and in certain things he’s got that super sad, lyrical thing happening, and I like that. I mean there’s an emotional quality that I like in my own writing or playing, and I certainly do it in a different way than Miles did it, you know, I don’t even want to compare to somebody like that, but certainly on an emotional level I try to get those things happening. It just seems like that’s what I kind of go for--some of that same kind of attitude. But also, the main thing about Miles was that he didn’t care what kind of style--I mean, he’d talk to me sometimes about Charlie Parker and how great it was playing with him and some of those stories, and then two hours later he’d be talking about the first time he heard Sly Stone. He said that shit was burning, you know, he loved it. He said it was funky and it got to him. Or James Brown, some of the stuff he heard James do, you know, he’d be talking about it with the same--it was the same feeling.

AAJ: What’s been your greatest challenge playing music over your career?

MS: There’s a lot of them. I guess generally, for me, just getting over whatever fears I have, and self-doubt.

AAJ: It seems like all musicians talk about that, the real serious, 100% guys have to deal with that.

MS: Yeah, you have to kind of deal with it; just about everybody deals with it on one level or another. And certainly, for me, sometimes I feel like, “Oh, I don’t know how I’ll do in this situation,” if something presents itself, if an opportunity presents itself, and more often then not I really go through a little dialogue with myself thinking, “Oh, I don’t think I should do it. I should call back and cancel,” and whatever. Certainly playing with Miles was like that. I was really scared knowing that like all the--you know, he’d been away for seven years and all of a sudden he came back on the scene--and I thought, “Man, well, this is going to be some shit.” (laughter) It’s not like you can kind of say, “Well I just played a little gig with Miles, did you hear about it?” (laughter) Everybody was kind of looking for that one. And I knew the band was real loose too. He didn’t really know what--he was just coming back--and he wanted to leave it loose, and like, let it grow. And of course the world wanted it to be like 100% right from jump, you know, and in a way it was in the sense that it was that loose, and in a way, like by the fourth or fifth gig it was a lot better than the first couple gigs. But there was still some stuff on all of them, because of the looseness and because of his vibe. He was always able to let things happen, or not happen and not give a shit that much, you know, (laughter) which is amazing. You know it’s great to talk to Miles about the same thing, by the way, like being nervous about playing or being nervous about playing in a different situation, and he used to say it very directly. One time I know he was talking to a bass player that was working with him--it wasn’t Marcus, it was after. The original band was with Marcus Miller and Al Foster--which I thought was a cool rhythm section, man. What a great thing to think about: Al Foster, who is really a bebop drummer, amazing, really more classic jazz drummer, and then Marcus Miller who is more of a funk bass player, and to get that shit to work--and it worked great I thought--really cool. I think that was one of Miles’ special things, putting together stuff that you’d think would be a weird hook-up and have it work.

AAJ: He would talk about feeling nervous?

MS: Yeah, he would talk about that. Like he talked to this bass player that did the gig for a little while and he said, “I know you got anxiety, and so do I”--that’s the way he put it to him, (imitating Miles’ raspy voice) “I know you got anxiety, and so do I, but you know what? Fuck it!” (laughter) In other words, yes, you’re nervous, but do it anyway. That’s how you’re going to get past it. You can’t give in to that, your fears. You got to feel them, and you know, live with them.

AAJ: Well, I asked you your greatest challenge, and let me follow up and ask: What’s your greatest reward playing music?

MS: Well, for one reason or another, I’m not exactly sure why, it just feels right to do, to play music, and be able to play it for other people. You know, it’s work for sure, but it’s work that I really love. It’s scary at times, because you’re really putting yourself out there. You’re not detached from it; it’s really you. You know, you’re writing a song and maybe it’s really from your heart, and there’s no running away from that. And then you’re trying to record it, and hear it back, and it’s like, Yikes. It can make you a little squeamish at times to say the least, if not down right terrified. And then you’re thinking, “Oh boy, this is actually, people are going to hear this.” Hopefully a lot of people and maybe not so hopefully, depending on how you feel. But to be able to do that and then get people to hear it, and then if you get some kind of response like people really dig it, it’s like, that’s like, for somebody like me, any kind of stuff like that is such a reward. It’s kind of surprising too. I remember when I did my first CD I was just convinced, “Well, no one’s going to like this shit.” You know, I was just absolutely convinced that that wasn’t going to happen. Yet I got a lot acceptance, and there were people that were telling me along the way, they just said “Go through it. Put one foot in front of the other, and I think you’ll be surprised.” Mike Brecker has always been a real support in that regard, and he said “Just do it and you may be surprised. What’s the worst that can happen?” And it helped me. Then, if someone learns a tune, or someone says that it really effected them emotionally, that kind of stuff...

AAJ: That’s heavy.

MS: Yeah, it’s heavy. It’s really great if people say “Wow that was inspiring, it made me want to do something else,” you know, that’s really heavy and a great reward.

AAJ: I don’t know if you’re comfortable talking about your wife? who is also a guitar player.

MS: Yeah.

AAJ: Is that all right?

MS: Yeah, sure.

AAJ: OK. My question is: Do you share music? or do you kind of keep that separate?

MS: Well, we keep the gigging together separate. We did that for a while, but that gets to be hard to do because you start saying, “Can you try this a bit differently?” (laughter) And it’s hard to say to your wife, or for her to say to me, and after a while we started getting on each other’s nerves. So we just decided--and kind of took a look around us too--and it didn’t seem like a lot of those marriages were, percentage-wise, were working out so good. If there’s not enough just marriage, and then too much work--and it’s not just musicians, but actors or lawyers, you know, if you don’t have some separation between a life outside of your work--but certainly we talk about music a lot and we play around the apartment a lot, and I hear what she’s writing, and I love what she does, very much.

AAJ: That sounds cool.

MS: Yeah, it’s really great. And we’ve been married for 20 years.

AAJ: Wow. Congratulations.

MS: Yeah, that’s really something, isn’t it? Especially for two guitars. (laughter) But it works really good, and I think that for us it’s worked to have some kind of boundaries, although I’d love to do some more stuff with her now, I’m thinking of even doing some stuff with singers at some point, I don’t know when, and maybe ask her to do a couple things, because she’s singing now.

AAJ: Well let me kind of wrap this up here and ask you one final question, and that is: If you weren’t a musician, do you have any idea what you would do?

MS: That’s a good question. I think somebody told me that Steve Swallow said that if you really want to be a musician, don’t be--because the lifestyle is too hard, you’ve got to travel all over, you’ve got to do this and that. If you have to be a musician, if you’ve got to do it, then it’s the greatest life in the world. And that’s kind of been my--you know, I think it’s never really been a problem for me because I’ve always kind of had to do it. Without it, I feel like I’ve got to get to something--somehow play some music or do something with music. It doesn’t feel right otherwise. I don’t feel right otherwise for too long, so I don’t know what I would do?