DL: Definitely.

VLS: What was it like for you to work with him? What did you learn from him? What are some of your recollections of him as a person?

DL: Well, it's a big question. I'll answer it, but I'll also refer again to my web site. There's a book called The Jazz Connection: Miles Davis and David Liebman that consists of a series of oral interviews that I gave to Larry Fisher, a professor of music who keeps an oral history of jazz at East Stroudsberg University. So if anyone is interested in the details, it's all there in this two hundred page document, but in short, the musical standpoint is one thing, the personal is another.

Musically, it was his ability to bring energies to himself on the stage as- quote- "the leader", but more than the leader in name, the leader in the sense of the dynamics of what was happening on the stage. It was unbelievable the power he had, with that little horn with three valves. He was also a legend, so that when he looked at you, you paid attention of course, But, it was outside of his legendary status or his charisma, or his orneriness as a person- which he could be- it was outside of all those things. It was his musicality, his sense of strength and conviction, and utter confidence in what he played, which was amazing to me because I stood five feet away from him. And you know there's nothing like- I'm sure musicians will understand this- there's nothing like standing close to another musician. It's one thing to hear him on a record, a second thing to hear him at a club, where you're like five feet away in the audience, but it's a whole other category to stand in the storm, next to the guy, the hurricane, and in this case that's why I learned so much in that respect- his aura was amazing.

VLS: What about his musicianship?

DL: Musically, his sense of rhythm and space is unique in the history of jazz. And for a sax player coming out of the Coltrane tradition, which I was and am, here was an incredibly different way to look at things. Because when we look at things from a Coltrane aspect, it's like a "colt" or a "train" going down the track never to be stopped, a torrent of energy and notes, and of course the saxophone is a rather agile instrument, a quick, virtuoso instrument, and we use it that way. Here was a guy who plays "less is more" and space and sound, and even in the midst of the style when I was with him in '73 and '74 when he was very rock and pop and drums, etc. even in that style he was still the same as when he would play "My Funny Valentine" in the fifties- in principle. So this is a great lesson.

His harmonic thing, although we weren't playing harmonic music when I was with him in the sense of chord changes, his ear, his sense of being able to go in and out of tonal center and lyrical and then be out there, was amazing. His choice of notes, his sense of pitch was extraordinary, along with the rhythm.

And as a person, one thing on the positive side- I might have had this attitude before, but it sure got reinforced with him- it was that you can't give a damn about what the people think, it doesn't matter what the public wants, you just gotta play for you and the guys. And that's why he could turn his back- he wasn't turning his back on the audience, he was putting his attention into the band.

VLS: I personally experienced that in the 'sixties- I heard him perform at the Village Vanguard- he played both of the two sets with his back to the audience! It was a beautiful performance, but with his back to the audience!

DL: Yes, it was a certain show biz attitude- he was a real performer also- he knew what he was doin', you know, how to attract attention. But he was really into the music the music we played in 1973 and '74, although now it's finally getting re-released and touted a lot, since all the acid rock guys are getting into it. It was a harbinger of a lot of what is going on in contemporary jazz- but in those days, it was completely out of favor with the critics and the audience. When we would play for concerts in those days, the applause would be tepid to say the least. People had no idea what was going on, and some of the music was chaotic, disorganized. It was a certain period of Miles that had its question marks in some ways, but there was certainly something there, and he couldn't care less. I tell you, he went out there, he would play, he would start before the lights were down, the guy did what he wanted to do, he couldn't care less, and its an attitude that I- for better or worse- carry to this day! Not that I have disdain for the audience, but I'm not referring to them when I play. I might introduce a tune, say hello, thank you, etc. If it's a lecture situation, like last night, we did Monk [September 25 gig with Monkadelphia], I talked to the kids, five, ten minutes I talked about Monk and his personality and about the music, because I love kids, but outside of education, which is an elucidation of what you do anyway, I'm not out to entertain anybody, and that was an attitude that I took from him.

That was the positive of it. The negative of that you could just imagine, that attitude taken into his personal life- and that covers that!!!

VLS: I was just going to ask you: Where did you derive some of your capacity to dare to do what you want to do musically?

DL: Well, look, you know, I'm not an island. I'm certainly sensitive to bad criticism or positive criticism, the press, or a friend or whatever, and I certainly would like to be more popular, more well known than I am. I don't think anybody wouldn't like to be more of what they are. But, by this time I think that I've settled that in my mind for the most part. I can't say that it was without conflict, in my thirties and forties, about why aren't I more well known, and it was frustrating. I had a great band in the eighties- Quest- Richie Beirach, Billy Hart, Ron McClure- it was a killing band, every body knew it, it was a "musicians only" band. And we never got a break in this country. We did very well in Europe. So, it was a frustrating period in that respect, and even now, I have a great group that I can't really work a lot, but these are political things, and have to do with the time and place, but it means that you really got to come to peace with that, otherwise you'll be frustrated and bitter.

For example, I took lessons with Lenny Tristano. Outside of the fact that he was blind, which of course would have had an effect upon his attitude, he was a bitter person. He was basically overlooked. He was a genius, advanced musician, contemporaneous with Charlie Parker in a completely different direction, "heavy" as could be, and he was a frustrated guy, and I had him at seventeen, eighteen, I could see he was very frustrated. I know you've got to come to peace with this- therefore you've got to do it for yourself. You gotta find a way to make a living, because you have a responsibility to your family, and you have to have a way to be at peace with yourself and what you do. And if and when the chips come your way, you say, "Thanks very much. I've been doing this, and thanks for coming on the train that's been going all this time."

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