By Andrey Henkin

John Tchicai is a legend on two continents. His work solely in Europe with a vast number of vital players would have solidified his reputation. Add to that his founding role in the New York Art Quartet (with Roswell Rudd, Milford Graves and Lewis Worrell) and work with Don Cherry, Albert Ayler and other cornerstones of American avant garde and you have a monumental figure in improvised music. Tchicai is featured on a new album by bassist Adam Lane (Fo(u)r Being(s), CIMP), whose group will perform two nights at the Knitting Factory's Old Office this month.

AllAboutJazz: As the 40th anniversary of the “October Revolution in Jazz” approaches, do you feel the ideas and ideals of that fertile period are still present in today's music?

John Tchicai: Some of my musical ideas have changed, some are still the same. The idea of free improvisation is still fertile as can be heard from the musicians that are still alive who took part in that revolution. Many young musicians have adopted the techniques which were used then. The ideals of the guild, the brotherhood and the social way of interacting, of helping each other to further one's life and career went down the drain just about the same time as Coltrane died. Since then it has been the "Me First" antisocial behavior that has been the way to go. Thanks to the pressures from an inhumane society, most people are forced to do hideous and unworthy things to the fellow beings in order to further their own agenda.

AAJ: French trumpeter Jacques Coursil felt, as a black musician who grew up in Europe, that he was an outsider to both the European and American music scenes, especially politically, causing him eventually to give up music. Have you felt this way at any point during your career?

JT: Politically, I have always been an outsider because I never believed politicians, and my way of looking at humanity is way too naïve if you take it to the street level. And artists will in any case always be outsiders, we are looked at and treated in a special way, so if you want to live this way you have to agree with the conditions.

AAJ: As a member of the graduating class of John Coltrane's Ascension (1965), how did your participation on that album direct your career? What are your memories of that session and how did it come about? The group still living that played on that album has had a host of health problems in recent years but you keep going strong.

JT: In America, most people know me from that record. In Europe, it’s different. There people know me from my productions under my own name. The session was one of the highlights of my life, to be in the presence of Maestro Coltrane and such a holy bunch of players was a booster. I believe it came about as an idea from Coltrane who put it across to Bob Thiele of Impulse Records. Sorry to hear about the health problems of the other participants of this date. I have only been in touch with [alto saxophonist] Marion Brown and I know that a year ago he was not doing so well, hope he's better now. I myself feel the age creeping in but I do my best to keep limbs and spirits agile.

AAJ: How does government support of music, once prevalent throughout Europe and now decreasing, though still much more than in the States, help or hinder musicians?

JT: Please do away with that myth that government support hinders artists in their development. Let's first have a testrun in the U.S., for let's say nine years, where creative artists receive a monthly salary from the government or the local municipalities of $2,000 and then let's see how much has been produced by these artists and let's see if it has enriched society or not.

AAJ: You have a unique perspective on playing with Europeans and Americans. Though many jazz musicians do not like to think in these terms, are there different approaches to playing jazz in American and Europe given the diverse backgrounds of the musicians?

JT: Yes, and don't forget to mention African or Oriental musicians. There's as many approaches to playing music as there are musicians. I prefer to play with folks who are honest and have fire and spirit and who are not stuck with certain attitudes. As John Cage says, 'get out whatever cage you are in.' The overall trend in both the US and Europe is a conservative one but fortunately there are a few originals here and there.

AAJ: After last September, you moved back to Europe. Why? And would you consider moving back? Steve Lacy has just returned to America after over 30 years in Europe, bemoaning the lack of opportunities for musicians. How do you feel about returning there?

JT: My daughter Nanna who lived in Denmark died and the Sept. 11th attack was what made me decide to make a change. I don't mind the change to France but if you base your whole activity on being a constantly touring musician then I see Lacy's point. It's not possible here, and not in the States either.

AAJ: Your playing now seems more forceful. Across a long career, a musician goes through many changes. What direction are you going in now?

JT: You tell me, what do you hear in the music? Someone from Africa told me recently after a concert I had played in Frankfurt that what he had heard was something he had always only dreamt about and always had been wanting to hear. This is the direction I want to go in.

AAJ: In the new group with Adam Lane, Paul Smoker and Barry Altschul, you are with two seasoned veterans and one up-and-coming musician. How did the group come about?

JT: I know Adam Lane from California and he is on several of my recordings. Adam asked me to join the quartet a year ago or so. I like him as a person and as a player so I joined him and to be able to play with Altschul and Smoker is also a treat.

AAJ: How does your playing complement a trumpeter, going back to your early '60s association with Don Cherry? You seem to not have worked with many trumpeters since then.

JT: With Paul Smoker it works fine. No, you are right, trumpet players are rare in my circles, of course there's Harry Beckett who I have worked with a lot in a group that plays the music of Johnny Dyani. And there was also the collaboration with Enrico Rava and Tomasz Stanko in Cecil Taylor's group Winged Serpent.

AAJ: How does Adam Lane's composing style (since at least at the Knitting Factory show last March, the group only played his tunes) appeal to your musical sense?

JT: I like him as a composer, he's inventive and original, and in the quartet there's still lots of room for individual expression.

John Tchicai will perform in Adam Lane’s quartet with Paul Smoker and Barry Altschul at the Knitting Factory Old Office on October 10th and 11th.

This interview first appeared in the October 2002 issue of All About Jazz: New York.