Jean-Paul Bourelly
Website
June 2002
"Devotion has to do with evidence of knowing and believing after that. My life experiences-as hard as some have been- have nonetheless, givin me certain evidence that makes me believe in and love the creator. Balance of emotions has, for me, alot to do with selflessness. Being able to not be somebody but just to be ... in a moment."
Trance-Atlantic
Challenge
2002
Reviewed By
Phil DiPietro
Boom Bop
Jazz Magnet
2001
Reviewed By
Mark Corroto
Larry Nai
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The Funk 'n' Jeanious of Jean-Paul Bourelly
By Phil DiPietro
Jean Paul BourellyÃÂs music has been called ÃÂfusionÃÂ, ÃÂBlues/Rock fusionÃÂ, ÃÂacid-rockÃÂ, ÃÂacid-funkÃÂ, ÃÂacid funk-fusionÃÂ, etc. His guitar work has been termed all of these and more. While, thankfully, we at allaboutjazz are decidedly not allaboutcategorization, our review of the latest from Jean-Paul, "Trance-Atlantic (Boom Bop II)", unabashedly points out that he is ÃÂtodayÃÂs guitar-playing acid-funk archetypeÃÂ. More importantly, letÃÂs emphasize that he is ÃÂa bold conceptualist bravely and pointedly mixing disparate elements to create a genre all his own.ÃÂ It is precisely this element, the continuing evolution,expansion and reinvention of his concept, that makes him the standard bearer that he is.
Now 41, Jean-Paul recently dropped his latest, and gracioulsy has granted us this in-depth ÃÂrolloutÃÂ interview. If youÃÂve already got ÃÂTrance-AtlanticÃÂ, give it a spin as you read this interview and feel how the theme of categorization and classification versus the uncategorizable and unclassifiable resonates through Jean-PaulÃÂs aural and personal vibe.
All About Jazz: You have been on the scene for a while. I first saw you play with Elvin Jones at the Vanguard in New York. I was absolutely floored by the way. How old were you then? Was that your first gig of ÃÂmajorÃÂ notoriety.
Jean Paul Bourelly: NoÃÂ
that was a long time ago. I had played with Chico Hamilton, Roy Haynes and Braxton, Dara, Threadgill and Muhal Richard Abram on his Blues Forever tour. Calhoun always reminds me when he was a teenager of how I used to get him into those Vangaurd gigs. ManÃÂ
it was so long ago. I used to get all of the young guys in because it reminded me of how hard it was for me to get into shows when I first came on the scene. I always told myself that if a young dude is even interested in the music he's got a pass if I got anything to say about it.
The inside on that gig was that I went and told Elvin I wanted to play with him, and, to put it mildly, that I knew the book and had some motion for his groove. I was real cocky back then.
Man that was five years that I went to the Village Vanguard with my guitar everytime Elvin was there, waiting for Marvin Horne (guitarist) to finish the gig. Actually I had resigned myself into thinking that it was never going to happen and I stopped going to the gigs. Then ElvinÃÂs wife called me and they wanted to try me out during the next weekÃÂs run. That was that.
AAJ: So tell us about your Haitian heritage and how it makes its way into the music.
JPB: Well the Haitian roots are just in me, and for a long time, I just didn't have an outlet to fully express the rhythms that come from that side of me. You see, in jazz, the rhythms are too staggered, and in funk,- the rhythms are too slow- plus the funk rythm is so dominant and recognizable in peopleÃÂs heads that it will obscure anything else that you play over it. That's why I went towards Africa- because the rhythms are pointed and up on top of the beat like Latin music. Very exact. Within that forum I could deal with the Hatian rhythmic vocabulary .
AAJ: Tell us about your musical brothers and their input into your projects.
JPB: Marc is ten years older than I am and IÃÂve never played with him in a formal group-weÃÂve just recorded together. But he turned me onto music in an expansive sense-not just dealing with it as something you tap your feet to, but something intellectually exciting as well as spiritually. I can still remember him putting on MilesÃÂ ÃÂOn the CornerÃÂ or Manitus de Plata and saying, ÃÂDid you hear that shit man!? Let me play it again for you.ÃÂ(picking up the turntable needle again)
Me and my brother Carl would just laugh and say, ÃÂDamm manÃÂ
not again..what the f@#k is he talking about??ÃÂ We were about 9 or 10 at the time but through the giggles we got what he was saying.Carl is two years older than me so our development was much closer.
AAJ: Who are your influences on guitar? Other instruments?
JPB: On guitar, Wes, Albert King, Hendrix ,Carlos, George Freeman. On other instruments there are too many to name, including a few of the usual suspects like Coltrane, Miles, Monk, Howlin Wolf, Fela. Others would not be so known to western audiences, such as Palgut Ragu, TV Gopalakrishnan, Dou Dou NÃÂ Diaye Rose, and Um Kalthoum.
AAJ: I was extremely distressed to hear last year that you had lost your wife. Please accept my condolences. It is an incredible and terrible loss you have sustained and it is remarkable you have stayed on the musical path at a steady pace, so to speak. If you would like to speak about how this has affected you, perhaps on a musical/career level, feel free to do so. If not, itÃÂs totally understandable.
JPB: First of all, thanks for asking about her. She was my closest everything. I can only say that those who knew Khadija knew what an exceptional human being she was/is. She had so much more to do in this life but through an ocean of tears, we had to all finally except that God had other plans for her. It was the hardest time of my life as well as my (at the time) six year old twins. They have inhertited some of her wonderful qualities, though.We are all trying to move on. Thank God for the music.
AAJ: (pausing before getting back to the list of questions) You combine a heavy acid-rock trip with a fusion kind of thing with a heavy avant- garde influence -Please pardon me if I am oversimplifying your incredible mastery of the style. Can you explain how these two elements...in other words the rocked out element and the avant- garde, "out" elements, slam off of each other and come together in your music?
JPB: It all seemed to be quite logical. The overdriven sound of an electric guitar comes closest to a field holler or a volcano. The emotional width of colors that one CAN come up with that type of approach is amazing. Each style just lent themselves to the other. On the other hand, I didn't look at the avant-garde as something seperate and apart from Bebop or R&B. It was more like a continum of the same conversation. I mean Ayler and Abrams all had deep blues in their style and could play it and had played it for years before developing forward. It was just another forward development as far as I see it.
AAJ: What other artists do you respect most deeply from a compositional aspect and how have you brought their influence into your music?
JPB: Well, I respect Monk very much for his character-and also that it's deep-but he didn't need to write a symphony to get the same effect. Musicians can actually play most of his compositions after a few sittings. The communal effect of a composition is very important, because if we the people can't partake in the stuff readily and contribute with our own interpretations, then what kind of communication vehicle is it anyway? The science of complicated simplicity is very intriguing. Strayhorn was great as well. Threadgill is one of my favorite guys around today.HeÃÂs got depth- romantic but still a lot of humor. I'm looking for the humor part myself (laughs).
AAJ: Your career as a sideman can almost be summarized as progressing from one master of to the next. IÃÂd like to ask you about a few. Can you expand on your association with Elvin? What years did you work with him? How has what you learned during that period, in terms of polyrhythms especially, affect your music today?
JPB: I worked with Elvin, I think, from 85 to 86. I was coming to ElvinÃÂs group with my own rhythms. I just wanted to superimpose them over what I knew Elvin would do. You see, I had formulated stuff way back in Chicago that I knew would work, but that no other guitar player had done with him. I had played with him so many times before I met him thanks to his recordings. I knew how he staggered the one, how he laid a groove back and what type of cross-rhythms I could throw into the mix. Of course, it would not always go down well with him, but most of the time it was exciting for both of us, I think.
AAJ: You played with Olu Dara after that, right?
JPB: Before and after.
AAJ: Please expand similarly on that experience and perhaps comment on the Olu of today.
JPB: Well the formation I played with was a very different situation than what Olu has got today. There were some wild boys in that old band- Phillip Wilson, Craig Harris, Thread, somtimes David Piester singing. That band didn't so much need a frontman but someone to steer the ship-and that was Olu- and of course he did it with impeccable style and flair. It had his southern-flavored stamp in there too and it was all about the music. Anything could happen at anytime. That was another great band that never got recorded. Also, Olu never played guitar but in his house. His Coronet playing and sound was monstrous. Everyone always wondered why this guy never had a record deal.
AAJ: I was surprised to find out you worked with Trilok Gurtu andSteve Coleman, other masters of rhythm who emphasize rhythmic compositions. Did you record with them?
JPB: Coleman and I go way back. We are from the same neighborhood in Chicago and were roomates for my first two years in NYC. When we where working together it was a very theoretical relationship. We almost constantly challenged each otherÃÂs theories, which where changing every month(laughs). I learned a lot from the exchange and I must say that he has a very strong musical mind. RhythmicallyÃÂ
I don't think he was so deeply into rhythm back then as he was into complicated time signatures and what rhythmic combinations one could find within the boundaries of these time signatures.I think the rhythms were from the head. He later went back to James Brown, and I think thatÃÂs when his music started to have a rhythmic impact to me. We stopped working together before he recorded his first cd, so it was early in both our careers, but he did record one of my compositions on that first disc. I was supposed to be part of his M-base, Brooklyn movement, according to many things I read later, but this information was all made up- I wonder where the journalists get their info from!?
Trilok is a master of rhythms, and coming from his part of the world, thatÃÂs not a big deal. There are tons of heavy, heavy drummers from India playing drums that most people in the West can't even pronounce. What I found special about working with Trilok was how he formulated the Northern Indian vocabulary into a Jazz and trap-drum approach. He has a lot of passion within this and is at the forefront of Indian percusssionists regarding that expertise as far as I can see.
AAJ: Please expend on how those relationships affected your individual approach to your own projects.
JPB: It's hard to say. From every project I first have to envision an ideal- a kind of utopia of an idea. Then everything flows out from that I almost never start a project from listening to someone. It comes from a vision- then, people may influence you along the way but it's hard to directly say anymore what I got from whom.
AAJ: Finally , you also played with Roy Haynes and spent time with Tony Williams, right?
JPB: Roy is one of my favorite drummers. His rhythms pop like firecrackers. My only regret was that I could never get to play with him outside of a BeBop context. His vibe is so now! Yeah, Tony and I became friends, but never got a chance to play together. He moved to the west coast and it seemed he was using cats from out there when I knew him. We never talked about music though- it just never seemed to be relevant.
AAJ: Can you expand on your association with Joseph Bowie and your work with his band, DeFunkt?
JPB: Joe Bowie is another great band leader to whom many people owe their early beginnings. I only played with Defunkt as a special guest later on in a quartet setting, and even then it was with my drummer (Alfredo Alias) at the time, so I guess it was a very special formation. It was big fun. I remember it like yesterday. The occassion was to celebrate Muddy and Jimi, which I was down to do because I knew he would bring it off in a hip way. He did!
AAJ: Can you offer an anecdote or two about the Amandla sessions? Jazztimes recently did an article expanding on the drama around the Tutu sessions. IÃÂm sure every Miles record had its particularly dramatic elements relating to process and the sessions. Did you actually play in the same room as Miles? Obviously, you are not exactly ÃÂall overÃÂ the record. IÃÂd love to hear the tapes that are on the cutting room floor, so to speak.
JPB: Yeah, me too. I was not in the room with Miles, I did a bunch of overdubs that they either put down in the mix or just didn't use. It was a production, man. We crossed paths post -Columbia records, so that was it, for me, being in the real group sound. It was still nice to be on the record.
AAJ: Please explain the circumstances that led you from Chicago to New York.
JPB: Man it was just known around town that if you didn't get out you would not grow beyond a certain point. Chicago is , or was, full of artists who got out. There are probably more musicians who left Chicago to go to either of the main music cities- NYC or LA- than anywhere else. All the records I liked came out of New York so that was that.
AAJ: Please explain then, the circumstances that resulted in your move out of the country to Germany.
JPB: Just family life. My wife was living here and I did most of my work here so that was it.
AAJ: Please tell us about some sessions that youÃÂve done that may never see the light of day?
JPB: There have been many, but I think everything will come out that was good.Most of my stuff has.There are a few things that I'm holding onto for the right time. There have been many fantasstic gigs that people will never hear.
AAJ: Can you point the listening public to some of what you think is your best work on OTHER peopleÃÂs recordings?
JPB: The ÃÂHendrixÃÂ Defunkt is good. I did a record with Hannibal Marvin Petersen called ÃÂFire in the HoleÃÂ on Atlantic that I played pretty good on. Most of the time I had the problem of being held back on records because my styleof the thick acid sound- it was always too much for most of my contemporaries. IÃÂve always said that I formulated my vision of guitar through my time growing up in Chicago in the sixsties and early seventies, but I presented my sound during the Reagan and Bush years so it was controversial.
AAJ: Please enlighten us, to the extent possible, about any kind of compositional methodology you may use. Can you please expand on this statement from a previous interview: ÃÂMy music since Rock the Cathartic Spirits has taken on newer forms and elements. It has a lot of bi/tri and quad tonal harmonies and an African/rock type of rhythmic attitude. I'm very excited about the way it has developed. People will really hear the difference with the Bourelly Bros. & Boom Bop CDs and even parts of the Vibe Music CD.ÃÂ What are bi/tri and quad tonal harmonies?
JPB: Well I suggest two different harmonies within a moment which usually are related chords. I might play a third on the guitar and in the same moment the melody or bass note might be a fourth away, suggesting two totally different harmonies but not commiting to one or the other with a big block chord configuration. It's a subtle thing and it's all over my music. It gives the music a mystic element without clobbering you over the head with an invasive sound.
AAJ: Please expand on some other theoretical aspects of composition that have been fruitful for you.
JPB: Well I'm getting back into melody again so the people who follow my music closely will see that change in the coming JPB recordings. I thought about it, and concluded that I hadnÃÂt really recorded a strong melodic record. Rhythmically I think conterpoint a lot. I have dug in that well and have never comeup empty. Rhythmic counterpoint is such a powerful tool. Listen to James Brown, rap tracks, or Fela. Fitting rhythms in between others is just close to what drives the heartbeat.
AAJ: You have commented previously that you use the information and spirituality of different religions in your music. Can you give us some examples of that?
JPB: Well I use the devotion and balance of emotions that I have learned from the spirituality one can acheive through all the major religions. Devotion has to do with evidence of knowing and believing after that. My life experiences-as hard as some have been- have nonetheless, givin me certain evidence that makes me believe in and love the creator. Balance of emotions has, for me, alot to do with selflessness. Being able to not be somebody but just to be ... in a moment. In that way one can follow where the moment is trying to tell you to go. Not to be consious of the crowd or the studio microphones but to just follow the moment with your talent. I have the feeling people get off on that as much as they do when you play a song they know. I know most of the people don't know my songs, for a least the form that weÃÂve turned it intoonce to play it live, so they get off on this dance with nature. I would pay to see that too!
AAJ: Please expand upon the concept of the Boom Bop records? They are a wonderful mixof the African (with the Griot Diop) , the funk, a polyrhythmic concept, and acid-rock thing. I could not agree more with what you said in a previous interview, that , ÃÂwords can never accurately describe ALL of what's going on in the music and people just get more confused when you try to describe it in a more detailed manner. It would be even more confusing not to say anything I think. They need a frame of reference. These devices are all used in order to get the listener to come to your music with an open ear and open heart. At that point and only at that point can the music speak for itself!ÃÂ So please give it a shot for us.
JPB: Like I said before, for every project I first have to envision an ideal- a utopian idea or ideal- then everything flows out from that. So for Boom Bop I and II, it came from a vision I had after many conversations with African musicians and intellectuals about what would it be like if African poetry could exist in a constantly changing harmonic world, with a more playable rhythmic context and not always the repetitive harmonic thing going on. The song ÃÂFatimaÃÂ has harmonies never repeat. It's like an operatic flow- with no conventional ABA sections. I had never heard something like that so it was exciting to do. I guess it's all about my American jazz ass envisioning my take on a new intellectual context for African elements. Whether I got to the vision or not is not important. What's more important is that it was a catalyst for ideas-and thatÃÂs the gas for the engine to run.
The sessions were done in two different years. ÃÂBoom Bop IÃÂ was actually done later than ÃÂIIÃÂ. Once again, the reason was that a label heard ÃÂIÃÂ and wanted it and so immediately I held on to what became ÃÂIIÃÂ privately until the ÃÂBoom Bop IÃÂ release was complete. These are a series of two records that I had envisioned to be a context for my Haitian roots. There will probably not be another record documenting this concept because I feel it's time to move on to something else.
AAJ: ÃÂBoom Bop IÃÂ received, from what IÃÂve seen , anyway, the best distribution yet of all of your releases. In addition, it was serviced quite nicely to the jazz press. Then it wound up making the ÃÂBest ofÃÂ lists at the end of the year, most notably the JazzTimes top 50ÃÂ
I would say thereÃÂs a simple correlation between the easy availability of the release and itÃÂs positive notices in the press and positive reception by the public, wouldnÃÂt you? By this I mean , on a simplistic level, the more people that actually HEARD the record, the more ÃÂpopularÃÂ or ÃÂsuccessfulÃÂ it turned out.
JPB: Absolutely! You are right on with that. As a comparison, itÃÂs similar to what we alluded to with the historical significance of ÃÂTutuÃÂ. It was most well-known and so it becomes a reference point . ItÃÂs silly for us to believe that these things come into our consciousness because they are the only good things around. For instance, there were a few other great soul singers besides JB and Al Green and the ones we know aboutÃÂ
B.B. King is not the King of the bluesÃÂ
Marsalis is not all there is to the young generation of jazz and Elvis was .... NOT! (laughs) The more people understand this the better consumers we will be. The manipulators won't have the same power as they are accustomed to. I think the internet is bringing that out. It still comes down to business. I'm not in the music for the business so I have to let my notoriety carry me where it will. I do put some time into the business end but not so much as to obscure what I need to do musically. I'm clear on that balance, and with the help of God things will work out.
AAJ: I am very intrigued by the ÃÂfuzzÃÂ acoustic bass sound used on the Boom Bops. Can you give us an idea of how that was achieved , how it was arrived at as a concept and how it was finally deemed a ÃÂkeeperÃÂ for the records?
JPB: The sound for me is what the name Boom Bop is all about. It's Booming. It gives the both records the unmistakable character of being a Boom Bop c.d.. I heard the sound in my head and then started to work with Royal (Orbert ÃÂBig RoyaleÃÂ Talamachus, credited as playing contra boom bass) on filters that could be used to get the sound.
AAJ: Please explain your collaboration with the Griot Diop. How did you meet and decide to work together?
JPB: He auditioned for part of the Boom Bop project along with many musicians around Europe. He was just the best artist of the many I heard with the flexibility and openness to move through boundaries. He was made for the group. Plus his Baritone sound was very different for a Senegalese singer. Usually they are alto or higher. His register fit well with the blues tonalities too. His poetry was meaningful too. It was not about shaking your ass but about very detailed oral history that one will not find in history books. I was proud that BoomBop could have this be a part of the sound.
AAJ: Please do the same for Archie Shepp, who appeared on the first Boom Bop cd.
JPB: I played with Archie on a special trio performance with Idris Muhammed and I was the special guest. I sat in and Archie took me through the old school regimen. I came off as a rockÃÂnÃÂroller to him considering the way I was dressed and the audience who came to check me out, but I knew how to pass the test. I think he may have understood after that night that I was doing what I am doing because I believe in it and not because of any fear of playing through chord changes all night long. We got along great . He is one of my favorite musicians. Archie cracks me up though. I mean, he still calls our thing a pop band (laughs). I keep saying we ainÃÂt got enough roadies to make this a pop band (laughs)
AAJ: What would you like the listener to take away from Boom Bop II?
JPB: Well, I only wish, as you said, that people get an honest chance to be exposed to this record. That would be a dream come true. It has a contribution of sounds both ancient and modern at the same time and it was a wonderful culmination of support from so many great musicians- so much so that the vibrations are true and from a long history I had with each musician involved.
AAJ: LetÃÂs talk about your particular bag-your trip. In an almost amusing way, there are so many elements to your sound, folks are bound to love one of them. You are expert at the funk, so good at the acid rock, so good at the avant, you sing, you can go traditional, etc. . There is just soo much going on, yet it works conceptually.
JPB: Well- it is one thing to me. It all springs out of the blues and then all of these other attitudes come on top with their own particular vocabularies. They are just flavors to be experienced and to flow through what I feel.
AAJ: Practical note. I haven't seen the ÃÂVibe MusicÃÂ cd in the US? When did it come out? before or after Boom Bop I ?
JPB: A year before- but it was recorded about 5 years before. That was another period of my life. That session was completed in the same period as ÃÂRock the Cathartic SpiritsÃÂ. It was only a question of which one to sell first and to which entity. ÃÂRockÃÂ
ÃÂ was already the property of DIW so they where going to put that out in Japan right away- so I decided to wait until that record did what it was going to do before I put ÃÂVibe MusicÃÂ up for release. ÃÂVibe MusicÃÂ came out after I moved to Europe, with another company, so that was the time lag.
AAJ: What is the best source for fans to get the ÃÂVibe MusicÃÂ cd from?
JPB: People should probably contact me through my website (www.bourelly.com) and we will try to direct them so a sure destination for the record. Can't promise though.
AAJ: Hip folks to your 'Tribute to Jimi' record by expanding on the experience of how it came to be and the sessions for it. Has that record done well for you?
JPB: I didn't want to do it but DIW made me an offer I could refuse. Once I decided to go ahead with it, Kaz Sugiyama, who was my co-producer, helped me to see how people would get into how well I felt what Hendrix was about. We have many similarities anyway- without the guitarÃÂ
so I got into it. It was probably the fastest record IÃÂve ever done outside of ÃÂJungle CowboyÃÂ, which was my first. That was done in one day.
AAJ: Do you think the club scene, festival scene is better for you in Europe or America and , if, as I expect, the answer is Europe, has living there made that difference even wider? If and when you bring a band to the US, who would it most likely include, putting aside scheduling issues, etc.
JPB: Yes you have to want to play in the States and I do want to play for the people there, but there is no respectable structure to present progressive music in the USA. There are places here and there, but itÃÂs scattered, so it's a very unstable situation. There are also big political issues about being a musician who doesn't fit into the categories and who play a music that, for years, has been presented in a confusing way. Being of African decent doesn't help that formula either. I only do it when I have the patience to eat a little Jim Crow. It's a part of American society that doesn't want to face itself. I'm disappointed with this.
AAJ: There are some other wonderful guitar players out there who I would say are part of your ÃÂschool of playingÃÂ so to speak. (Please tell me if I am off base here) Do you care to comment on folks such as David Gilmore, Jef Lee Johnson , Dave Fiuczynski , Blackbird McKnight and Vernon? Would you add anyone to
that short-list of monster players with a stylistic commonality? Any other present-day musicians you'd like to give props to?
JPB: Yes they are all very competent players. But we shouldnÃÂt all be lumped in the same category because we all have very different approaches. Until people understand those differences then I guess we will be. Kelvyn Bell should be included for his unique style as well.
AAJ: Thank you for sharing your thoughts with us, Jean-Paul. LetÃÂs wrap up with your foreseeable musical plans for the coming year or so.
JPB: I am planning to move into a bit more acoustic playing and delving into the melodic approach with some poetry I've been writing. I don't know which songs will stay spoken word or which I will sing to but after the last five years of excursions all over the world I want to take it back home so to speak. I still plan to develop the bi-tonal thing because I just hear harmonies like that but only as it serves the song. And look for us in New York in July, maybe at JoeÃÂ Pub. We are trying to work it out.
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