By Allen Huotari

Successful revolutions rarely occur overnight. To achieve victory, revolutionaries must perfect the art of patience. Sympathy for the cause must be acquired as slowly and as quietly as possible. Act too soon or draw too much attention to yourself, and you’ll soon find yourself in prison or dead. Wait for your moment, and you will change the world.

Although many jazz journalists have described Joe Morris (composer/improviser/guitarist) as a “revolutionary” he probably would not describe himself as such. That is, not unless revolutionary was defined simply as “doing your own thing, being true and honest to yourself while doing it, and striving your utmost to accomplish it.”

If nothing else, Joe Morris impeccably demonstrates a single-minded devotion to sounding like no one else but himself. Unlike the majority of his contemporaries, Mr. Morris steadfastly avoids augmenting (he might choose to say “adulterating”) his guitar work with effects. His sound is clean, pure, and undeniably grounded firmly in the blues. Technical analysis has often drawn comparisons to reedmen such as Jimmy Lyons or Eric Dolphy instead of to other guitarists.

As a composer/improviser, Joe Morris’ musical aim is straightforward: "My goal is to make unique music that will surprise you while remaining open to interpretations". To further this objective, Mr. Morris initiated his own label, Riti Records (named after a single-stringed instrument of African origin), and released a handful of recordings (2 lps and 3 cds) from 1982-1993 .

The singular, non-obvious nature of his music drew the attention of the renowned label Soul Note. With the release of SYMBOLIC GESTURE in 1994, Mr. Morris became the first guitarist, in the history of that label’s celebrated catalogue, to issue a recording as group leader.

Since that album, Joe Morris has virtually erupted, adding 15 more titles to his discography as solo performer, group leader, and in collaboration with bassist William Parker, pianist Matthew Shipp, and clarinetist Ken Vandermark (refer to “Joe Morris Discography” below) and in the process solidifying a well-deserved reputation, if not as “revolutionary” than at minimum a “true innovator”.

Joe Morris’ latest recording is MANY RINGS (Knitting Factory Works) with long time associate Rob Brown (alto saxophone, flute) and new sparring partners Karen Borca (bassoon) and Andrea Parkins (accordion, sampler). This recording, and several others by Mr. Morris, will be spotlight reviewed in next month’s All About Jazz, as part two of this profile.

In the meantime, All About Jazz is pleased to present the following interview with Joe Morris, as the first installment of the profile.

Thanks to Heather Mount of the Knitting Factory for facilitating this interview, and to Eric Speck of the Knitting Factory for last minute support.

Note: This interview was conducted via e-mail in June 1999.

ALL ABOUT JAZZ: You mention in your liner notes to A CLOUD OF BLACK BIRDS (1998, Aum Fidelity) that it was in the winter of 1969 (at the age of 14) that you learned to play your first chords using a friend’s guitar. Why, what, or who inspired you to pick up the guitar at this time? Did this immediately lead to a fascination and experimentation with the instrument? If not, when do you feel you earnestly began to learn to play?

JOE MORRIS: It was probably the Beatles who inspired me to want to play the guitar. I had played trumpet for awhile when I was 11&12. I had been through a long period of failing at everything so being able to play a chord and play a song was a huge step forward for me. I just kept going everyday for years.

AAJ: As a follow up, were you interested in listening to music before you began to learn to play the guitar? Or did playing lead to listening?

JM: I always loved music. My Uncle John was a drummer in Swing bands. My Family had a lot of respect for music and jazz. Playing was a respectable thing to do. We heard lots of music.

AAJ: How did you become attracted to jazz and improvisation ? Did an interest in rock or other genres lead to jazz ?

JM: I had become a pretty good blues guitarist by the time I was 15. I got into Hendrix which of course led into other things. My sister came home from Berkeley, Calif. where she had been living with a jazz drummer and brought copies of "In a Silent Way" and Coltrane's "OM". At that point my friends and I were into things that were "out" or "insane" like Zappa and Beefheart. "OM" was the answer for me. I spent the next bunch of years listening to Jazz, learning to play Jazz and listening to all of the Classical and virtuosic folk music I could. I was at a student run alternative high school in downtown New Haven right on the Yale campus. I went to concerts and recitals everyday for years

AAJ: Would you please describe your musical education? (i.e., does it include formal training? Completely informal? Both?)

JM: I had a bunch of trumpet lessons and about 6 guitar lessons. I read a lot of books. I really studied in a University of the Streets kind of way. I picked up what I could wherever I could find it. Mostly I concentrated on the aesthetics.

AAJ: When did you decide to become a professional musician?

JM: I played my first paying gig when I was 14. I am always "trying" to become a "professional" musician. It's never-ending. When I was about 17 I decided that I would pursue music as a way of life.

AAJ: You admit to being influenced and directly inspired by pianist Lowell Davidson (more on this to follow) as well as guitarist Jimi Hendrix. Furthermore, it’s been suggested that other influences include guitarists Bern Nix, James “Blood” Ulmer, and John McLaughlin, saxophonists Jimmy Lyons and Eric Dolphy, and pianist Cecil Taylor. Do you agree to these cited influences? If so, how have they influenced you? Are there any other influences who should be named?

JM: Lowell, Hendrix, Dolphy, Cecil, Jimmy Lyons yes - they are influences. McLaughlin was someone who showed the way to thousands of guitarists after Hendrix. Everyone my age who plays guitar is influenced by him, but anyone who tried to have their own thing had to walk away from him to get there. I was once misquoted as saying that Bern and Blood were influences. They happen to be my two favorite American guitarists but I was doing what I do before I heard them so I don't thing they influenced me. They are great though.

Alhaji Bai Konte the master Kora player is a huge influence. I wrote the whole story in liner notes to my solo CD "No Vertigo" on Leo records.

Messiaen, Ives, and Groucho Marx are big with me too.

AAJ: Could you please elaborate how and why each of these have been influences? (esp. Groucho)

JM: There are a few pieces by Messiaen which to me really bridge the gap between "serious" European music and sacred folk music. Especially when he uses percussion. His music has a kind of free flowing mysticism that is of course heavily influenced by Nature. His love of birds and bird songs. I'm really into birds as these freaky/beautiful alien creatures that hold the entire history of Biology. My view is more of a post psychedelic epiphany kind of view. I think that Messiaen might have seen them as God's creatures which is a bit different than my view but only by a slim definition. He was really deeply Catholic but he saw Nature as the ultimate miracle. I think that that idea is the basis of all truly great music and art. That idea in it's various interpretations is what draws me to African and African/American music too.

Ives spent time studying and writing in New Haven, my home town. There is a dissonant hum in some of his work which sound to me like the sound of the quiet in the Connecticut woods. I heard that sound before I heard Ives. I recognized it in his music and felt like I was in on a secret.

Groucho was the greatest actor that ever lived. He could turn any group of words in any direction in a split second. I think about that a lot when I'm playing. He's also the ultimate wise ass of course, who would join no club that would have him as a member. I'm not interested in being part of any doctrinaire, dogmatic scene led by anyone. I mean, I vote and I obey the law. I have a family and I pay my taxes. I'm not an anarchist because it's too organized around set principles. I prefer to be a kind of old fashioned hipster who doesn't fit in anywhere, quietly pissing off the people who spend their lives pissing off people with their anti-social contrivances. It's all been so predictable for so long.

AAJ: As a follow up, your liner notes to ANTENNAE (1997, Aum Fidelity) relay some fascinating information about your relationship with composer/improviser/pianist Lowell Davidson. Would you please tell us more about Mr. Davidson ? How and when did you meet? Specifically how he has been a mentor to you? Would you please describe and elaborate on the “Green Book”?

JM: Lowell was a very idiosyncratic guy. He approached music from a kind of psychedelic angle. He listened with more care than anyone I've ever known. He was never really a mentor, more like a collaborator with a lot of unique ideas. I heard him play a solo at a bookstore in 1980. I talked to him and his words were so refined and deep that I asked him if we could play together. It took a year to pin him down. At that time Braxton was stirring up a lot of ideas with his theories and rhetoric. I was stuck in Boston miles away from the creative music action. I wanted to get into something deep. Lowell was in very deep. I think now that Lowell had the deepest rhetoric I've ever encountered. He talked about music as biology and as a force of Nature. Once we started to play together I just wanted to stay in Boston and deal with that. I no longer cared about what was happening in New York or Europe. Well, not to the same extent. I was still interested in those scenes but I felt that the Boston scene had it's own identity. Unfortunately, I was probably the only one who thought that who wanted to reach out to the world and show it off. Lowell didn't and neither did anyone else in Boston. They didn't even know there was a difference because they didn't know what was happening elsewhere.

The Green Book was a collection of blotchy color xeroxes. To me they worked as mnemonic devices. You know - you look at them and play. Lowell pointed to a tiny spot and told me that if we worked really hard we might be able to play that. What he meant was that this music thing was really enormous. You had to approach it like it was a force of Nature beyond your control. Don't rush it - explore the tiniest particle and the deepest information would reveal itself.

AAJ: In a 1995 interview with Norman Weinstein, you are quoted as saying: “It has been a deliberate thing for me to avoid sounding like other people. My approach is, if it's not original and if it's not done on a high level, then it's not worth doing.” This approach would seem to reside on at least two stylistic levels: First, as an instrumentalist, second, as a composer/improviser. On each of these levels, how do you avoid sounding like other people? What do you deliberately do to prevent “influence” from becoming “imitation”? Furthermore, is it even meaningful to attempt to view your guitar playing as being separable from your music?

JM: I am not an interpretive musician. I draw influence from primary sources like Nature, culture, feelings, reflection, etc. I stopped listening and copying other musicians in 1974 when I realized that they were as strong as they were because they were using their own voices. I had to learn to use mine. My guitar playing is my way of displaying my music. It isn't different from my music but my music is about ideas, not just about the guitar.

AAJ: As a follow up, many musicians today seek a unique voice primarily through “synthesis” (i.e., absorbing, assimilating, and combining multiple influences). Other musicians might seek a unique voice primarily through the exclusion of specific elements that they may have been affected by. Do you feel you rely primarily on either technique? Why or why not?

JM: I'm not a genre bender. There is plenty that has not been invented yet. We have to be patient. Music only exists in time. It is a way of marking time and experience. If we look around there is plenty to draw from without synthesizing any music. I'm not declaring that my music is or will be relevant to this period, I'm just taking a shot at it. Trying to find a formula that works is about the most transparent thing an artist can do. Those people work but where's the meaning, the unique time marked?

AAJ: Do you believe that many musicians settle for being “original” or “immediately identifiable” but ultimately fall short in their musical efforts by being “predictable”? How do you personally differentiate between being “original” and “predictable”?

JM: There isn't very much original anything in music. It takes too long. I don't see the point in trying to be another Miles Davis or even Derek Bailey. Their work is there, let's make something else. It may not be possible to move on without feeling their influence, but let's go, let's try another way. Music is full of dogma and doctrine. You have to be willing to be outside of the group in charge to do anything else. It's scary. You feel like a failure. You might end up as a failure, but anyone with real creativity has been in that state. You need new listeners to do something new. The old diehard followers of the reigning doctrine won't be interested. You need fresh ears with an open mind looking for their own experience. You have to be willing to be kept outside of the established accepted zone.

AAJ: What do you personally find to be the most alluring aspect of improvisation for you?

JM: Obviously the unpredictability. You can express very large ideas quickly. Also, it's kind of like falling in love every time you play. You really have to go for it. I try to get to a kind of creative core in me. It's a kind of truth telling. Like romance without the complications.

AAJ: As a follow up, what do you feel are the most common misunderstandings or popular misconceptions about improvisation?

JM: It isn't as free as we say. You can only play what you know. Our improvisations are like our words. We repeat ourselves all the time, in a re-arranged way. The trick is to try to get past that and be fresh.

AAJ: You have the reputation of being very demanding of yourself. Do you find that you often set higher standards for yourself than your peers do of you? Or does the larger part of setting challenges for yourself come from working with demanding musicians?

JM: I didn't know that about my reputation. I don't have a formula so I can only gauge my performance on how I feel about it. I do try to keep the guys in my own groups tuned in to the structure we're dealing with. I don't like everything to blur together, but I want them to play freely at the same time. That can be too much for some people. My music is in-process all the time.

AAJ: As a follow up, from among the many talented musicians you've worked with who has presented you with the most challenging and/or synergistic relationship? Who have you learned the most from working with? What is it that you’ve learned?

JM: I try to choose situations that bring out new challenges. I think that every musician I've played has been very challenging. I think that I keep learning that I have to try new things, understand more, open up more, calm down, wake up. Sometimes I have to do things that go against what I thought I believed and still retain myself. That's the best.

AAJ: What musicians would you most like to work with that you've never worked with before?

JM: Roy Campbell, Craig Taborn, Mark Dresser, Evan Parker.

AAJ: What recordings by other musicians have you heard lately that have excited you?

JM: I can't remember

AAJ: Do you have any preparatory routines or rituals prior to performing live?

JM: I try to calm down. I try to laugh. I play scales and tunes to warm up. I have a small pink sparkle pick bag that my daughter made when she was 3. I hold it in front of the audience before every gig. I don't make a big deal of it I just face the audience with it and remove the picks I need for the set. I makes me think of my family and that focuses my thoughts.

AAJ: What's the funniest or most embarrassing thing that's happened to you while performing or recording?

JM: Besides what I played? Can't think of anything.

AAJ: What is the most meaningful or memorable compliment you’ve ever received?

JM: About music right? One guy told me that at one point in his life he was stricken with an illness that kept him from being able to walk. He sat and listened to Bill Evans and me. That's pretty amazing. I'm always amazed to be included with musicians like that.

As far as press goes Gary Giddins did a Weather Bird article about me. That meant a lot. I learned a lot from reading him when I was a teenager. I really want to reach the audience, give them a good experience.

AAJ: For the hardcore musos reading AAJ: what equipment do you use (guitars, strings, amps, etc.)?

JM: Les Paul custom, Guild acoustic, Fender Deluxe.

AAJ: You’ve given lectures at Harvard University, New England Conservatory, Berklee College of Music, North Down Institute (Bangor, North Ireland) on such topics as "Transfer of Traditional West African String Music to American Blues Guitar" and "Composing for Improvisers”. Is it possible to obtain copies of your lectures?. If so, how?

JM: A lot of that was incorporated into a syllabus for a course I did at Tufts University called “Concepts and Aesthetics of Modern Improvisation”. The dean changed the course title to something else in the catalog but that's the name of the syllabus. I have an outline for a book, but I haven't had time to deal with it.

AAJ: Are the Riti recordings (see discography) still in print? If so, how may they be obtained?

JM: Yes they are all in print available through North Country Distributors. Or at www.Joe-Morris.com

AAJ: What projects can we expect from Joe Morris for 1999-2000?

JM: The next cd is MANY RINGS on Knitting Factory and is with Karen Borca, Rob Brown, and Andrea Parkins.

I also have a quartet cd (with Mat Maneri / violin, Chris Lightcap / bass, Gerald Cleaver / drums) called UNDERTHRU due out on a new label called Omnitone.

In addition there is a newly released cd, RACKET CLUB, which is an electric group recorded in 1993 and just released on About Time (also at North Country). It's the second part of my big, loud electric guitar trilogy. SWEATSHOP was the first part. That came out on Riti in 1990. Racket Club is Jim Hobbs / alto, Steve Norton / baritone, Nate McBride / electric bass, Jerome Deupree and Curt Newton on drums. This record wails!

AAJ: Once again, thanks for your time.

JM: My Pleasure

JOE MORRIS DISCOGRAPHY (in reverse chronological order)
Joe Morris/Rob Brown/Andrea Parkins/Karen Borca MANY RINGS (Knitting Factory)
Joe Morris Quartet UNDERTHRU (Omnitone)
Joe Morris Quartet A CLOUD OF BLACK BIRDS (AUM Fidelity)
Joe Morris/Ken Vandermark/Hans Poppel LIKE RAYS (Knitting Factory)
Joe Morris Trio RACKET CLUB (About Time)
Joe Morris Trio ANTENNAE (AUM Fidelity)
Joe Morris/William Parker INVISIBLE WEAVE (No More Records)
Matthew Shipp Duo with Joe Morris THESIS (HatArt)
Ivo Perelman with Joe Morris STRINGS (Leo)
Joe Morris Quartet YOU BE ME (Soul Note)
Paul Hession/Alan Wilkinson/Simon H. Fell with Joe Morris REGISTERED FIRM (Incus)
Joe Morris Ensemble ELSEWHERE (Homestead)
Joe Morris NO VERTIGO (Leo)
Joe Morris/Joe Maneri/Mat Maneri THREE MEN WALKING (ECM)
Joe Morris/Rob Brown Quartet ILLUMINATE (Leo)
Joe Morris Trio SYMBOLIC GESTURE (Soul Note)
Rob Brown/Whit Dickey/Joe Morris YOUNIVERSE (Riti)
Joe Morris Trio FLIP AND SPIKE (Riti)
Joe Morris Trio SWEATSHOP (Riti)
Joe Morris Trio HUMAN RITES (Riti)
Joe Morris Trio WRAPAROUND (Riti)