By Lazaro Vega
Bassist/composer John Lindberg at home in Saugerties, New York, speaks with Blue Lake Public Radio's Lazaro Vega on October 31, 2001.
John Lindberg: Who wrote this song, "Proud To Be An American?"
Lazaro Vega: Oh, my wife knows.
JL: Lee Greenwood?
LV: Yeah, I think that's him.
JL: He's singing it on television. But I never heard of this guy Lee
Greenwood before. I've heard this song, but I just didn't attach it to his
name. He's singing it at the World Series right now.
LV: Are you a Yankee fan?
JL: Ah, yes, I haven't followed them that much this year, but when
they get to the play offs I start peeking in. (Laughs) You've got to be a
Yankee fan around here, to some degree or another.
LV: I was wondering if we could talk a little bit about your concert,
then?
JL: (Teasing) you don't want to talk about Lee Greenwood and his great
influence on me?
LV: Yeah, sure! Lee Greenwood as a major contributor to the jazz cannon?
JL: Yeah. It's a hell of a song; actually, "I'm Proud To Be An
American."
LV: Is it?
JL: Yeah, I think it's a good song.
LV: Oh, well tell me why because when I hear that they're squeezin' the
sugar out of everything.
JL: (Laughing) He-yeah, I know: that's true. No, I mean melodically I
like it. Now they've got someone else coming on, they're doing like a
whole.ooh, they're going to have an opera singer. (Pause). I'm sorry man.
LV: That's o.k. You're giving me musical play by play.
JL: (Laughing) Yeah, I'm giving you play by play of what's happening
at Yankee Stadium. Now they're going to play The National Anthem.
LV: That never crossed my mind, you playing Lee Greenwood's one song, but
would you? Would you incorporate that as a quote? Would you play it on the
bow? That's really audacious, isn't it?
JL: No, I don't think I'd include it. I'll stick to my own American
commentary, but I can still appreciate his. Mine's a little more abstract
than Lee's, but you know, it's all just the same thing.
LV: I was looking over the liner notes the "The Catbird Sings" (Black
Saint Records) and noticed how you were talking about being able to get off
the page for a concert and not necessarily have to rely on composition as
much as the individual musical personalities coming out. I was wondering if
that is going to be the way you and Wendell Harrison get together; is that
the way you approach that meeting or is there another way?
JL: Well, I think what I was talking about in those notes wasn't so
much about getting away from composition, but getting away from the idea of
writing for instruments or having instrumental combinations dictate how you'
re creating compositional structures. Because I'm more interested in writing
for, or selecting tunes, pieces, which are a good vehicle for individual
personalities. So I wouldn't necessarily write the same way or bring in the
same material for Dave Douglas as I would for Leo Smith because they're
completely different instruments. They both play trumpet, but to me they're
different instruments. That's more of what I was alluding to than getting
away from compositional ideas: just take a different way of looking at them.
LV: Does that impact your approach to working with Wendell Harrison? When
did you first meet?
JL: We first met over a year ago during that period I was living in
Detroit. The first thing that we did together was a duo concert. Then we
also did a Detroit radio production for his Rebirth Series. That would have
been trio, we added drummer Gerald Cleaver, but we also did a couple of duo
things on that production.
And then I used Wendell on a concert where I was basically doing the music
from the "A Tree Frog Tonality" record (Between The Lines). I used him on
reeds and Ed Sarath from The University of Michigan playing trumpet, and
again Cleaver on drums. So Wendell's been able to explore my music in a few
different contexts and I've explored his music in duo and trio contexts.
It's a very natural combination, even though we're coming from different
generations and different backgrounds. I think the kind of things that he
writes are very natural for me to play, and he seems very open to my
concepts and very comfortable playing within them. It's a really good
combination: it brings out the best in both of us.
LV: I was about to ask if you'd have conflicts in choosing a set list,
your program, because of the differences. But I know from looking at The
String Trio of New York's repertoire that you have a deep appreciation for
some of the bop things James Emery brings to the band. And Wendell Harrison,
well, everyone from Detroit of his generation and older seem so closely
associated with bebop (Ed: Harrison studied with Barry Harris early on.).
JL: Wendell's music and the things he's brought in are even more
traditional in the sense that they are much more influenced by New Orleans
music, especially clarinet features and tributes to King Oliver. Things like
that. The stuff that he's brought in isn't really bebop, but even earlier
forms of the music that he's personalized.
But, yes, it's definitely a more standard or traditional way of playing and
writing than I generally do, but I think that's what makes the combination
rich.
LV: So how did you arrive at what compositions you're going to play?
JL: For the duo during the first time we got together we just brought
in some things, each one of us, and played them, then selected the things
that seemed to sound the best and felt the most comfortable. We just played
them. It wasn't a very arduous process at all; it was natural.
LV: Beautiful. It seems your work in Michigan has been prolific lately. I
don't know how many times you've been here, but the Kerrytown Concert House
and -
JL: -- Well, that's because I was livin' in Detroit. That's why.
(Laughs).
LV: How long were you living in Detroit?
JL: A year. One year from May of 2000 to May of 2001.
LV: Is it where any environment you enter you're going to be prolific? Do
you play that often where you live?
JL: Well, yes. I don't think I was that prolific in Detroit. It just
seems that way compared to the fact that I didn't really play in Michigan
except a handful of times over the last two decades. I certainly played in
Michigan more in the last year than I did in the previous 25.
But, yeah, you always try to be active in the area that you live. Since I've
been back out here I certainly have been doing a lot more in the Hudson
Valley and New York City than I did when I was in Detroit, although I was
commuting back and forth a lot because my roots and connections go back from
this area a long ways.
LV: So how much of your year is spent overseas either in Europe or Japan?
JL: Oh, you know, less and less the last four years because I've been
raising a son by myself and I've cut back my touring activities drastically.
Before that I would be six to eight months a year on the road, but I no
longer can or will do that.
Right now I like to do shorter trips, and I'm much more involved in creating
bigger projects and getting commissions and doing recordings. Generally
doing things that are more project oriented rather than running around doing
one night concerts which I did a lot of for over 20 years. I don't do that
as much any more.
LV: That was quite a stand, man, you being out there for 20 years dealin'
on almost a nightly basis.
JL: Well, yeah: it was a good run (laughs modestly), and I may go back
to it, but right now I have higher priorities. So I've had to restructure
how I've been doing things a little bit. I still play a lot on the road but
nowhere near what I did in peak years of that kind of activity.
LV: So do you still keep in touch with some of the people that you played
with in your earlier career, such as Anthony Braxton?
JL: I haven't seen him in ages, but every once in a while I have a
phone message from him. But I haven't been much in touch with him. But
nobody really has. He's pretty much a hermit at this point.
But, yes I really do have a lot of contact with people who were very
important to me early in my career. Like all the St. Louis guys who were
very important to me: the Bowie brothers, 'Bobo' Shaw, Luther Thomas,
Oliver Lake, (Julius) Hemphill, and Baikida Carroll. Baikida Carroll
actually lives in the same town, Saugerties, that I live in and I just used
him on my last recording I did a couple of weeks ago in Vienna. So that was
like going back and hooking up with someone from an earlier era of my
career, which was a really nice thing to do. Yes, I do like to keep those
connections alive one way or another.
LV: Who made up the rest of the band on that recording in Vienna?
JL: Steve Gorn is a player of a variety of bamboo flutes and soprano
saxophones, and Susie Ibarra was playing percussion. That's my latest
ensemble.
LV: Susie Ibarra has a very unique way of approaching drums.
JL: I love her. She plays a variety of percussion on this: her
Philippine tuned gongs called Kulintang, and a lot of hand percussion as
well as trap set. There are a lot of colors in this ensemble and I like it a
lot.
LV: How would you summarize the bass's role in the rhythm section or the
full ensemble; how would you typify it today in improvised music? Is there
any way in words to describe how far you can go as a bassist, or can you
just be, like, whatever comes into your mind?
JL: You can pretty much take it as far as your creativity wants to.
The thing that's become important, paramount for any bass player is that we'
ve transcended the idea of roles. Pretty much, if you want to be a strongly
functioning bass player, for example, in high level improvised music you
have to be able to play a variety of roles and not just one of being a
member of a rhythm section or functioning as the pulse of the ensemble. It's
to be able to be a melodic voice, to be able to be a solo voice, to be able
to color the group orchestrally, yeah, and be able to do all of those things
well. The role, if there is a role, it's expanded so greatly that it's
become many roles.
LV: It still can be, at times, a formidable rhythm instrument.
JL: Absolutely, oh yeah! It's the heart and soul of ensembles almost
regardless of what kind of music you're playing. Other musicians and
listeners rely on that foundation. But I think it's very wide open as to how
you can interpret the giving of that foundation.
That's the thing, if everybody is sounding good by himself or herself; the
group is going to sound that much better. You go back to bass players like
Wilbur Ware or Paul Chambers. If the whole band stopped and you were just
listening to their accompanying line, it was so happening just as a musical
line that it had a power and a force all by itself. It didn't even have to
be combined with anything else.
That's a great way to support other players: by having a line or a color,
whatever area of music you're playing, that's strong in and by it self. When
you start combining those, it's just makes an overall statement of much more
power than if the individuals are relying on one another to make each other
sound good; rather than just being very strong by himself or herself, and
then being able to blend that strength. That's really what we're trying to
go for.
LV: It seems like a lesson you could draw maybe from the way Monk
orchestrated. He was able to get so much sound out of a five or six-piece
band. Mingus, too. Mingus band with Jack Walrath, George Adams, Don Pullen
and Danny Richmond, that band always sounds like 10 to me, it never sounds
like just five.
JL: Right, it always sounds like a big band or something. I know,
yeah. That's great. That was a great band. That's a band I saw live, the
only band I saw of his live. That was incredible.
LV: I keep seeing Mingus recur as a composer in the String Trio of New
York and in your ensembles. "Nostalgia in Times Square," "Pithecanthropus
Erectus."
JL: That's right. Well, we love Mingus.
LV: On "Tree Frog Tonality" I was wondering what the "Thanksgiving Suite"
was inspired by?
JL: Thanksgiving (laughs).
LV: The Detroit Lions on t.v.?
JL: Huh! Right, there you go: the Lions and the Bears, just being at
home. Thanksgiving. It's a nice Holiday when it's like that. It was inspired
by that holiday. Probably a particular one at home in Michigan with that
kind of environment we were just describing.
LV: I've noticed on many different recordings you'll re-approach one of
your compositoins, such as "Circular Views." That pops up. I noticed on
"Tree Frog Tonality" the piece "Little M and Big M," but the other one, on
"Trilogy of Works For Eleven Instrumentalists" (Black Saint) was called "m
To M," right?
JL: It's the same piece, essentially. It's just re-arranged and
re-orchestrated. I changed the title a little bit because it's changed
musically a little bit, but I keep it enough the same so that savvy
listeners like yourself can notice that it's the same thing just in a
different setting.
LV: That's like Duke Ellington. I'm sure he loved certain versions of
"Mood Indigo," but seemed to get restless with it and want to tinker with
it.
JL: Yes, that's what I like to do. It's like, you write a piece, often
it gets played or recorded; it has its life and can tend to die. I'm
fascinated by doing things that I wrote a long time ago, and redoing them,
inserting them in the middle of new things, or just taking sections of them
and using them again. It just seems silly to come up with really creative
material and then just leave it to be done in one way, one time. I'm very
interested in using it and re-using it and re-molding it all the time when I
find certain areas where I really like what I've come up with .
LV: That sounds very creative.
JL: I guess it could be, but some people say it's a little lazy, too
(laughs), but I don't agree with that. I just don't think it's possible to
constantly write completely new things. So it's very interesting to take
stuff you've done and then remold it with different personalities and
settings.
