By Nils Jacobson
IV. On the David S. Ware Quartet, Proximity, and Intimacy
AAJ: Let's focus on these two records you did with David S. Ware. You definitely did break through some styles. He has his vision, and he's pretty focused about it. There's a lot of influences there that sort of mingle, but he speaks with a pretty strong voice. You've had to assimilate within that. How did you join up with him?
GEB: I joined up with them... let's see, I did this piece with this choreographer of Rent, Marlies Yearby, and this was totally not as a drummer, but as a musician, as a singer, as a dancer... the musical theater piece came in again. And she has her own company called Movin' Spirits Dance Theater. Cooper-Moore was the music director of that piece. He opened the door and suggested that I connect with David [Ware]. He said I should check it out: Can I play fast? Can I play hard? And I said, "Yeah!" (That was after seeing what I could do with this other group, and how serious I was, just as a performer.)
So I checked it out. I knew of William [Parker] and Matthew [Shipp]. I knew of all of them. I didn't necessarily know of it in this kind of unit. So I checked it, and I said "I can do that. I can get with that." And so I called them, and we had an audition, and that was that. He [Ware] said, "I can work with this."
AAJ: So it clicked from the first time you played together.
GEB: Yeah. You know, he heard what he needed to hear. And I kind of tried to give my best impression of how I saw myself in that chair. We just went from there.
AAJ: How have you had to adapt to fit into that context? How's it different from the other stuff you do?
GEB: I think it just calls for different feeling tones, different spaces, at different times. And that's just my job as a drummer, in terms of supporting the traditional feel of the classic jazz quartet. It's me claiming my position in that concept as it's gone on over time. Playing that role, and playing that character all the way through.
AAJ: Surrendered struck me as kind of an old-school record. There's a lot of roots in there. You hit that. I hear that. I guess it sort of makes sense. But then this new one [Corridors & Parallels]--I have no idea how that worked with the electronics and getting everybody to fit together.
GEB: I think David's just trying to get to some new spaces, and there's some beautiful spaces on that record.
AAJ: What does that mean for you?
GEB: Again, whatever spaces he needs to access, I'm totally game. Because this is a new experience, a new place. That's what I'm there for. I might not like some of the canned beats... "Let me program it for you!" or whatever. But he has his own way of accessing it. I helped him to access the technology. My friend sold it to him. And I've consulted with him about his computer and getting into technology, with him running ideas by me.
I gave William [Parker] some little software drum machines on his iMac and stuff: "Check this out, you'll really like this." And he has his own feelings about hip hop and Wu Tang. I guess someone from their crew kind of hangs around, like Killa Priest. His daughter or his son played Wu for him. It's amazing, amazing stuff, you know. Those RZA produced albums like Ol' Dirty Bastard, Ghostface's Raekwon. I'm like, "those are great records." And then he's like, "oh, it just sounds like they opened up a dictionary and da-da-da-da-da."
Yet, and still, if they did go and open up a dictionary, they're doing the same thing that he's doing, or that I'm doing. They're accessing "free." It's abstract yet it's communicating with the rhythm, there's something about it that resonates. You might not understand everything, but there's something about it... whether it's the tone, the juxtaposition of the track and the soloist or MC on top of the track. Whether they're ignoring the beat, or paying attention to it... they're inside of it, or they're outside of it. It's the same thing. For me, at least.
AAJ: So it didn't work for him [Parker].
GEB: No, not right now. But he likes Björk. [laughs]
AAJ: What's not to like?
GEB: Right, exactly. Her dad was a jazz musician, and she's amazing. So, at least he [Parker] can get some of this stuff... and I gave him Bebel Gilberto, Tanto Tempo Remixes, which is cool, you know.
AAJ: It's funny. You talk about all this different music, and you try to keep up on what's new & happening out there. But when I talked to David [Ware], he's very emphatic: he doesn't listen to anyone else. He listens to himself.
GEB: Some things I might not listen to because they're too close. Like maybe I've bought Amon Tobin's first record, but I didn't listen to it too much. I bought Squarepusher's Music is Rotted One Note. But now, as I'm in it, some stuff that I read about I might not check out. It depends on the feeling. Some times it can be detrimental, other times not. You know what I'm saying?
AAJ: You want to retain your own voice.
GEB: Yeah.
AAJ: But we're on to something here which reveals something about you. Who's too close?
GEB: Around '96, when Spooky came out, I bought that. But I couldn't go on to Riddim Warfare or any of that later stuff. I have this amazing Lunar Crush record from Fiuczynski and Medeski, and maybe one of the other MMW records from around there, but none of the Blue Note stuff. I don't have DJ Logic. This guy Kirk DiGiorgio, who blew my mind with his Mo'Wax record from somewhere around '97. That was it for me. His new one, on Ubiquity... and Roni Size is too close for me in the midst of putting together my own stuff...
I'm working with this twelve piece, kind of electro, but with conducted improvisations. But I went to see Butch Morris and Threadgill. I saw this Butch Morris conducted improvisation, this huge piece, at Aaron Davis Hall. I thought, "That's it! He's sampling the orchestra." But I can't yet really listen to it. I might buy it but I can't yet really listen to it, because I'm right in the midst of trying to figure it out. Maybe if he had a book, "this is how I access the orchestra or the improvisers to do certain something-or-others"?? I might get that. Or I might research that. Threadgill's record--I haven't checked.
AAJ: Keep a safe distance from that one. It's good.
GEB: See, that's what I'm saying. I know those Columbia records that Threadgill did. That's what's informing what I'm doing right now. You know, Marcus Rojas is going to be playing with us. I hear the bass in drum-n-bass has tuba and trombone in it. That bit in there growls and that horn's sub quality. That's in there. And, you know, marching music is in there as well. So that's what I mean by "too close." I might love it, I might enjoy listening to it, but... I don't ignore it. I know what's going on and I'll check it. And I also want to support music in general. I might buy the 4Hero record, New Sector Movements, IG Culture's album... kind of fusion, jazzy, fusiony stuff, but danceable--all groove and it's really phat, and I love it. This guy Vikter Duplaix, this new K7 record, I'm still checking stuff. The Archie Shepp Blasé record, and definitely Communion with Don Cherry. A Sonny Rollins record, Freedom Suite, that I am working on with the David S. Ware Quartet for the SF Jazz Festival this spring. Yeah... you know what, some times I try to check the things that are not too close, and then they end up being too close. Like Le Tigre. And Ex-Girl. I end up hearing things. The first Def Jux compilation from last year. RJD2 and that Cannibal OX record is incredible. El P is an amazing producer. But I'm hearing it, and going, "damn! that's good!" And it makes me want to go to that place more in my own music. So sometimes it can be detrimental, sometimes it can be helpful, it all depends on the day and my feelings.
AAJ: How about the jazz guys? I'm thinking not necessarily drummers, but someone with a rhythm-oriented sound. Don Moye would be an example from a different period. Do you follow that? You're listening a lot of electronic music, hip hop, and urban. Are the jazz strains falling out?
GEB: The jazz strains? Naw, they're not falling out. They're there. They're just there. They just are.
AAJ: But what are they? In 2002?
GEB: You know, all the cats I play with. In addition to Yusef Lateef. That really spoke to me. And I saw the duo with Cecil [Taylor] and Tony Oxley. And the record from when I was born, Dark Unto Themselves, with David on it, 1976. Twenty five years later we went back to the festival where he recorded that record. Last year, we did that in Slovenia. And that kind of stuff. Just to hear that, and to hear him in that place.
AAJ: Context, again.
GEB: Yeah. But Tony Oxley/Cecil [Taylor] duo, that was amazing. Daniel Carter is amazing. Roy [Campbell] is amazing. William [Parker] is amazing. It goes without saying! Hamid [Drake] is amazing.
AAJ: You ever get together with him and play?
GEB: No, but he's definitely a friend.
AAJ: He's got the same point of view as you. There's no little nook or cranny where he wants to tuck himself away.
GEB: Yeah, and you seem him doing all these other projects. Like the one with Bill Laswell's wife, the Ethiopian singer. Hamid's on that. And Tabla Beat Science. And Operazone.
AAJ: Sorry, that one was detestable.
GEB: Yeah, I didn't check it. But he's doing something else with Prefuse 73's crew. I just heard about that, and I'm psyched to hear it. I'm kind of giggly about it. It's great.
AAJ: Black Cherry?
GEB: No, not yet. But there was an Organic Grooves record out a year or two ago that was really eye-opening.
On to Part 5-7...
