By Anthony Shaw
Didier Malherbe is one of very few French musicians to gain any degree of respect among modern English-listening audiences, and this must be mainly due to his involvement in the 1970's and 90's in the European space-jazz-rock crossover Gong. As the most consistent French participant (among many itinerant contributors) under the appellation Bloomdido Bad de Grass (named in respect to his mentor Charlie Parker's song with a rough translation of his own name), he added what he himself refers to as Gallic lunacy to their whimsical, humorous approach to modern jazz-rock. In this interview, conducted on either side of an extended weekend trip to London for a concert with Gong, he outlines the development of his own mix of European, Indian, and middle Eastern (particularly Armenian) styles which is now offered in company of Loy Erlich with their band Hadouk. The transcript also attempts to preserve an element of Didiers linguistic lunacy, even if he graciously agreed to conduct it in his second
language.
AAJ: My background is very much as a Gong fan. Are the Gong beginnings still important to you?
DM: What - the souvenirs(memories)?
AAJ: Is it any more than memories? Do you feel your professional life began with Gong?
DM: No, my professional life didn't start with Gong, but it's true that before Gong I was wandering. I went around the world to learn to play. I met for example in Tangier some people playing the blues - raga blues. I went to India to learn the bamboo flute, but my background was in jazz. I was playing semi-professional jazz about a couple of years. But it's true with Gong we toured a lot, you know living together, we toured so much that by default I didn't need to ask myself if I was a professional musician. We had the energies all together as we were living in a community. It's very good for the energy to have the manager, and the musicians in the same place - more convenient, let's say.
So we toured a lot and we opened a lot of things in France. The first concert we played was actually in Belgium, because the authorities in France had actually refused it. You know it was the first actual pop festival in continental Europe. That was in Amougie, with Byg records. There were two stages there, two tents. One was for pop and there were groups like Soft Machine, Frank Zappa, people known at the time like East of Eden, Captain Beefheart, many people. That was the first Gong gig. On the other stage there was jazz. At that time in the early 70's there was a lot of free jazz - Art Ensemble of Chicago - and I was playing then with Burton Green, an American pianist resident in Holland. So it's true, it was pretty much the beginning of my professional life.
AAJ: And then you were active in the world of classical jazz
DM: No that was before. I was playing at the age of 17 in clubs - bebop jazz - I was playing tenor sax and imitating people like John Coltrane. Then I went to India. And as I didn't take my saxophone I started to play bamboo flute, and to become interested in modal music. Because it's true that harmony and chords have very much a kind of infinity - you can add to the chords and harmony. But it's true that there's an infinity in modal music too. And it concentrates you as a musician.
So at the beginning of Gong it was a melting of these free jazz elements, oriental elements and rock . And that was very satisfying for me, because Soft Machine was very much the group that gave me the impression that I could mix up all my influences. Soft Machine was very pop with Kevin (Ayers) and Robert (Wyatt) singing. So we were not secluded - it was more like the open air! And they were playing like Indian music. As I told you I was interested in modal music, but also in rhythms which were not straight 4/4 - you know 7/4, 11/4. In jazz Dave Brubeck did Take 5, but Soft Machine was improvising on 11/8, 15/8, and I was very much interested in this aspect. And we were also doing that in Gong, but compared with Soft Machine in Gong there was also the addition of humour. This was was Daevid Allen, he brought the mix of fantasy and reality. When you hear early Soft Machine there was this spirit, but when he left the group they became very much a jazz-rock group. Interesting but less humorous. And it happened with Gong too. When Daevid left it turned out to be more of a jazz-rock group. He was the origin. On the record after he left, Shamal, which I worked on, we had a sort of humour within the music, but we didn't have flying teapot stuff. But when I left and Pierre Moerlen carried on, it became more a jazz-rock thing.
During all the 80's I started my own band called Bloom. I nearly stayed in England in the 80's, but finally I came back to France.The 80's were hard with all the punk- especially for lunos/lunies like myself. It became very punk, very brutal, but in France I still had a lot of friends. I started to work with Jacques Higelin . He's a singer and poet - very famous in France.
AAJ: And you also started to write some poetry then
DM: Well when I was 18 I wrote a lot of poetry in my teens. I had to decide to become a musician or a writer. And so I didn't write much for many years, but recently I just started to write again recently. I have a book in print now, to be published very soon. My subject is the reed of the saxophone- the plant. It's a medium between the idea of the musician and the ear of the listener. It melts with the air and finally gives the melody. It's a very important part and I have created it as a human character, with psychological characteristics, metaphysical aspects. The text is written as sonnets - very difficult to read. Maybe Daevid (Allen) will translate some of it later. It will be published in France by Editions Comp Act.
AAJ: Let's move forward a little.
DM: Well the Bloom years were the early 80's and we toured quite a lot, and eventually I did another album with Faton Bloom, with Faton Cahen the pianist with MAGMA. I told you that with Gong we opened some new circuits in France, and we were always very close with MAGMA in those days.
AAJ: Well Gong in those days was almost a French band, wasn't it?
DM: Well, half and half, whereas now it has become purely Anglo-Saxon.
AAJ: And what about your work with Hugh Hopper, Pip Pyle and Phil Miller?`
DM: OK You mean Short Wave (CD released on Gemini 1993). Yes it was a very nice group. We toured a lot in Europe and Japan, but in the end it was too difficult with people living in England and France. But its true its one of my best recordings of straight jazz. I really like it. Its a record that might be reissued by Voiceprint. When Gong played the 25th Anniversary party in 1994 Short Wave also played there and this concert should also be released soon on Voiceprint.
AAJ: Do you have any contact with these musicians, some of whom I think live in France?
DM: Yes I do. Pip is in France, and Hugh Hopper is in France and in Holland a lot with his Hugh Hopper Project, which includes Patrice Meyer on guitar. I play with him in the trio Didier Malherbe with Philippe Foch on percusson.
AAJ: Can we go back to the origins of your solo career?
DM: It was after Faton-Bloom I started to do my own thing. First came Fetish(1991) and then Zeff, and Fluvius(1993). When I did those records I gave them those titles, and I didn't realise that they were the 4 elements. Bloom represents the earth, Fetish is fire, Zeff is air(it means wind), and Fluvius is water - so I covered the 4 elements without knowing it.
I started to work with Loy Erlich because he was a friend of Gong. He never actually played with Gong, but he turned out to be one of the first pianists to play with the Africans, when the African wave started. Touré Counda Loy participated in all this - with Y'souf N'Dour so we had these parallel careers for some time, then we decided to play together. After Zeff was Hadouk(1995) just he and I, and then Shamanimal(1999) with Steve Shehan (percussion).
AAJ: And you've been playing this year with Steve and Loy. Any chance of a live recording?
DM: Well, we want to do a new record. Actually Steve Shehan has been doing a lot of work with Paul Simon. But we will be playing in Paris at the New Morning in December and on 19th Jan at the festival of Sons D'hivers near Paris, and we will carry on with that trio. And also next year there should be a live recording from Faton Bloom.
And in the 90's I also participated with a lot of tours with Gong in America and Japan. First there was Gong Maison and then Shapeshifter And we actually toured a lot in America, playing for a lot of young people. I did a lot of touring with Gong in the 90's. That was until I decided to give the baton to a new saxophonist Theo Travis - I had too many things to do in France, and it was at this time I stopped playing tenor saxophone. And tenor sax is a very good instrument for Gong. But I was turning my attention to new instruments that I didn't play before, instruments which are softer, because Gong is very much a loud group, a rock group. But my own music is very much softer, so I don't need a loud instrument. I play soprano sax, but I play more and more Armenian doudouk, which has a much more sweet, tender sound. Also I play more and more bamboo Indian flute, and other new instruments: ocarina, tarogato form Hungary, and bamboo clarinet. I am interested to play soft, and sounds that are not much used.
AAJ: Have you any contacts with Turkish music in Paris,like Kutsi Erguiner?
DM: Yes Kutsi is very good. But my instrument is more Armenian, and Armenian music is more.. maybe more mellow.
AAJ: So you're not working with Turkish musicians.
DM: No, not with Turkish music. I don't want to put it down you understand, because it's so rich, but as an instrument I prefer doudouk to the equivalent in Turkey.
AAJ: Do you play ney at all?
DM: Yes I do. I started recently when I went to Egypt. I don't play the same as Kutsi (Erguiner plays Turkish ney), it's not the same kind of ney. And also I play the caval from Bulgaria.
AAJ: What are your contacts now with Gong?
DM: Even though I have now passed the baton to their new saxophonist, I still guest with Gong. I recorded with them in 1999 and I co-wrote one song on the last album (Zero 2 Infinitea) - Magdelene -and I will be going to London at the weekend to play at a concert (Hackney Empire) It's quite nice with two saxophones
7 days later:
Well it was really nice. The group is so solid, really swinging, especially with Chris Taylor on drums. They have toured so much this autumn, despite some management problems in the US, they are very tight.
AAJ: So theres still room in the band for a little Gallic lunacy?
DM: Oh yes. Gong is a band that always could be international, there is always room for others. But I was only participating as a guest. While I was in London I also met Rob Ayling from Voiceprint and we agreed to release my first album BLOOM, which will be some time next year.
AAJ: And other plans for next year?
DM: Well, as I said, I will be recording another album with Hadouk, with Loy Erlich and Steve Shehan, and there is my book of poems. I am hoping also to make a theatrical presentation of this, in Paris. But this will be very French, something I cannot export!
AAJ: Maybe this is something not so accessible to readers of AAJ!
DM: Yes, but you know musically I like to play around the world, and sometimes I perform something in international French - using words everybody can understand around the world, like bric-a-brac and cul-de-sac. Something anybody can enjoy.
AAJ: So a small taste of French literary cuisine to finish with! Monsieur Malherbe many thanks for your time and may I wish you well for projects in 2001.
DM: Thank you.
