By Jason West

One of the hardest working musicians in town, bassist Chuck Bergeron is a tough guy to get a hold of. Since moving from NYC to Seattle, Chuck has been busy working on a number of musical projects for other musicians, as well as composing, recording and producing his own stuff. The result is that he's always playing or on the run. Luckily, Chuck is a native of New Orleans, and loves a good meal. Knowing this, I was able to entice him into speaking with me in exchange for generous servings of homemade chicken gumbo. Afterwards, full and friendly, we sat down to talk.

JW: You have a new CD out, "Compositions Coast to Coast." What response have you received from the media?

CB: They all hate it. No, actually so far the reviews I've gotten are really good. The interesting thing is most of the reviews-there will be one in Jazz Times soon, there are a couple on line, some local things, Bass Player carried an article on it-the reviews are talking about my writing more than my playing. I'm happy about that because when I first started making my own records I promised myself I wasn't going to fall into that bass player trap of having bass solos on every tune, having all of the tunes be about bass this, bass that. I wanted everything to be about the music and let the music stand on its own regardless of whether I soloed on it or not. To be honest there are a lot of times when bass solos are not the most appropriate thing for the composition. So I feel happy that most of the people who have reviewed this have really liked the writing and it seems like their ear is really drawn to the writing more than anything else.

JW: How about the musicians response?

CB: Everybody seems to think it's good; they like the writing; they like the playing. I did the best I could to feature certain musicians in what I felt were elements they would be comfortable with. One of the tunes on there, "Role Model," I wrote for my good friend Rick Margitza whose writing and playing have always been very inspirational to me; and I used some devices that I developed from listening to some of his compositions. So it was only right that I have him play and have some nice wide open space for him to do his thing.

JW: And how about yourself, how do you feel two years after making the recording?

CB: I tend to do a new record every other year. The new record that we're working on now will be finished the first week in January. I've got half of that done already. I took advantage of the time that Bob Moses was here, and Charles Pillow had come out from NY. So some of the compositions that I had prepared for this next record we've already got on tape. They'll feature Pillow, Moses, and two of my favorite guys that I play with around here, John Wikan [drums] and John Hanson [piano]. There's also a little Jay Thomas on there. The longer I live here, the more I want to involve myself with the scene here, and the people I'm doing records with here I want them to be a part of my music as well.

JW: "Compositions" is your second CD and your first on A-Records, a division of the Dutch-based, Challenge label. What attracted you to Challenge?

CB: It wasn't money. (laughter) Well, Margitza is one of the featured artists on that label and through him I got to know some of the people working at that label. They have no restrictions artistically. A lot of labels in America, not all of them but a lot of them, their sole focus is marketability, some type of hook, some type of schtick. But Challenge doesn't put artistic restrictions on me: I can write and record and play the music that I hear. They support the development of the music and of the artist as opposed to taking an artist and forcing him into a certain niche just so the label can sell a few more records. I've been with many groups that that's been done to, and I just don't want to have my music treated in that way.

JW: Along with yourself, A-Records has under contract some great young musicians like Charles Pillow and Rick Margitza who play on "Coast to Coast." It's fun to listen to these guys improvise. Compare their sound and style.

CB: That's an interesting question since they are both very good friends of mine and each other. They both have a lot of the same influences obviously, coming from Trane and all of the standard influences that two people of that age would have. Rick has an uncanny control of the altissimo register of the horn. Part of the reason that I wrote such high voicings for him on one of the tunes is to make use of that sound he has. He has control of that register like no one else I've ever heard. It's a gorgeous and sweet sound with very fluid, beautiful, lyrical lines. The depth of Rick's playing, harmonically-it's the deepest of anyone I've ever worked with. His harmonic knowledge and the things he's able to do harmonically are head and shoulders above most musicians playing today. He's got something very special, which is why he spent some time with Miles. Miles heard that and a lot of other people have. His music has had a tremendous influence on me. Charles, on the other hand, also has a great harmonic knowledge and depth to his playing, but he also has influences of bands we grew up with, growing up in New Orleans, in that part of the country. He's got more of an R&B and funk influence in his playing. As he was listening to Trane and all of the standard things that we would all listen to, he was also heavily involved with, you know, Neville Brothers, Junior Walker and the All Stars. He listened as much to Parliament Funkadelic as he did to Miles, and you can hear that in his playing. His sound is bigger than Rick's. I'm not making a value judgement, but where Rick's tone is very focused in a certain register, Charles' sound is a little broader and a little deeper. There are times in certain styles of music where those R&B roots will come out in his playing; and his ability to combine those rhythmic roots with his harmonic knowledge make him another one of my favorite players.

JW: On the CD they both play tenor, and Charles doubles on bass clarinet.

CB: Charles can play anything. He started out as an alto player and he played alto all through college. When he went to Eastman he got into the doubling thing and the oboe just really turned him on. Oboe is one of the most difficult woodwinds to play. The whole double-reed thing; it's just a nightmare. You can sound really, really atrocious playing it especially if you're trying to play something as difficult as improvised jazz. However, all of his doubles are great. There's nothing that I've written that he can't play, and his studio resume kind of shows that. He's done every record from Joe Henderson Big Band with all those doubles, plus all of the Maria Schneider stuff with all of those woodwind doubles, Sinatra duets, Luther Vandross, John Scofield-he's done all these records playing a different instrument: English horn, oboe, alto, tenor, flute, bass clarinet, you name it.

JW: Randy Brecker's trumpet has been all over the place for the last 40 years. Do you like what he brought to your compositions?

CB: I've loved Randy's playing-and I don't mean to make him sound older than he is-but ever since I was a kid. Randy is probably the most underrated jazz trumpet player in the country. Inevitably, when you ask people about jazz trumpet players, they're going to rattle off a list, and his name might or might not be on there. He's thought of more as a commercial player, but that's a shame 'cause he's just phenomenal. When you play with him live you can hear the warmth of his tone; it's a big round, full, gorgeous sound. It's just fantastic. Check out the recording of the GRP Big Band "Live." There's an arrangement of Cherokee with four trumpet players playing in unison. They're playing the Clifford Brown transcription and then they start soloing and Randy's playing the deepest shit of any of them. You know, one of them is up there playing high, fast, flashy, whatever…but the one that's really inside, workin' through the changes, and really making the deepest improvisational statement is Randy.

JW: Your first CD, "Loyalties" was a released under your personal label, Gayle Force Music, and also features Pillow, Margitza and Brecker. There are some really burning, NY-tempo tunes on "Loyalties." Contrast that CD with "Coast to Coast." Would you agree that "Coast to Coast" offers deeper compositional and sonic delicacy? I'm thinking especially of the counterpoint and the writing for bass clarinet.

CB: I think if I had to compare them, the emphasis on the second record really was the writing. As I develop as a writer I'm trying to open up the sound a little more, let the music breathe a little bit. A lot of young writers, and certainly I've fallen into this trap a little bit myself, tend to put too much into one tune. They try to force too many notes, too many structures into one composition, and a lot of times that restricts the improviser's ability to create in that context. So as I mature as a composer, I'm trying to let the music breathe a little more, and take a few extra chances. I don't need to be so safe anymore.

JW: "Last Call" is a wonderful tune.

CB: Thank you. It's programmatic. It's programmatic music. It's about a scene at a bar during last call, and it's supposed to have a good, drunken swagger to it at the beginning which develops into that total manic, free- for-all type of thing. I went into that with no preconceived notion of form or harmonic movement.

JW: Since moving from NY in 1996, you have garnered a great deal of respect as a fine composer and bass player, but also as one of Seattle's musical ambassadors, encouraging NY musicians to visit, play gigs, run clinics, and even record here. The list so far includes Dave Pietro, Charles Pillow and John Fedchock. Who else do you have in store for us?

CB: Next on the list: John Hart. John Hart is my favorite guitar player, period. I shouldn't say that; I love Scofield; I love Pat Metheny. But John Hart is as good as it gets. He'll be out here the first week of November. My whole thing is, I still work in NY a bit, but I live here and I've met a lot of really good musicians here and I enjoy playing with them. I also have friends who are really good musicians in NY. So, what I want to do is combine them all. I love having somebody like John Fedchock or Charles Pillow come out here and hooking them up with somebody like John Hanson. I think it benefits everybody. It's always good for the guys in NY to get out and play music in other parts of the country, and it's good for the guys here to play with other people. Plus, the audiences seem to dig it.

JW: You're gaining experience as a producer, also, having produced both your CDs and various projects for other musicians. Obviously that's something that you enjoy doing.

CB: I enjoy it very much. I started doing this in NY about five years ago, and each year I seem to do a few more projects; it's kind of a growing part of what I do. I've produced 15-20 acoustic jazz records. I've also done about three contemporary jazz albums and a bunch of vanity projects and things like that.

JW: How do you approach producing? What is integral to the job?

CB: Well, each project has its own set of circumstances. Basically, there are records that I do for my peers, and there are records that I do for clients, and the dynamics of these relationships can be different. But, when you're producing, you have to wear a lot of different hats, especially if you are playing and producing. One of the most important things going into the project is maintaining your focus. The producer is the one person responsible for maintaining the goals and the integrity of the project. Are we doing this purely art for art's sake? Are we doing this to compete with other radio- play-format tunes? What does the client want? There are a lot of different questions. For all of that preparation is the key. When I do a project, I usually spend a lot of time with it long before we ever go into the studio. Arranging is a big issue with me. How the music is arranged, how it's going to flow, I want to be involved with those kind of details. I'm real big on rehearsals. The bottom line with that is simple: time is money. You know, if you go into the studio and your not prepared, you're wasting everybody's time and the client's money.

JW: Currently you're involved with mixing the Pax Wallace/Bob Moses quartet project. For that project you played bass and produced. Did you find it difficult to fulfill both roles?

CB: I'm getting more comfortable with it as I do more of it. When I'm in the control room I have to be calling the shots and making decisions on one level, and then when I go and I sit with the instrument I have to relate to people in a completely different way. But it all works out because the deeper I can get involved with the music on any level, I think the better I'm going to play it, and the better I'm going to be at recreating what it is that we are trying to do.

JW: I remember you once told me that if I happen to interviewed you, I had to ask, "Who's the funkiest bass player of them all?"

CB: Well, we were talking before about some of the funk influences I've had-great electric players like Louis Johnson, Larry Graham-so many I can't even list them all. And there are so many different styles of music with great players, you know, George Porter from the Meters.

JW: I know you play electric, too.

CB: I play a lot of electric. I actually made a living for five years playing almost exclusively that other brand of jazz. I just like good music. I like a lot of funk and R&B, and I love to play the electric bass as much as the acoustic bass. I use them as different tools for different jobs. But when you're talking about funk and how things cross over from instrument to instrument, of all of these great funkmeisters, the funkiest bass player I've ever heard in my life was Milt Hinton. I know you might think that's ridiculous since Milt Hinton is an old icon of the swing and acoustic era, but he came to Loyola University when I was an undergraduate. He spoke to us, told some old stories, and then started playing, just by himself. Remember back years and years ago there were no amps, there were no steel strings, just getting a sound on the instrument was a monumental task. And some of these old guys had developed this incredible slapping technique, because basically back then the bass was another percussion instrument. You felt it. You felt the thumping of the beat a lot more than you could hear the voice leading and the harmonic capacity. So he started in on this fingerboard- slapping thing, alternating with the notes he was playing. And then he doubled it up. Then he would double up the slapping. And then he would triple up the slapping. Then he went back and forth between double notes, double stops, slaps-he created this entire composition. There was this 80 year old man who was so short and sweating profusely and creating the funkiest, most incredible groove that I've ever heard; and it was on a 100 year old bass. It was the funkiest thing I've ever heard in my life. I'll never forget it. I was just a kid then, and it opened up a whole new world of respect for these people and what they could do.