By Ludwig vanTrikt
All About Jazz: Your recordings thus far are a distinct departure from the mainstream.
Andrew Rathbun: I suppose my recordings are different than most of the jazz releases out there, but that is my hope as well. There are so many recordings that I really feel sound the same. For instance, tribute recordings. It never ceases to amaze me how many tribute recordings there are! We all have influences and music that is vital to us, but any true artist takes these and synthesizes them into their own personal artistic statement (one would hope.)
AAJ: What is your formal musical background?
AR: I studied music at a young age in the ORAF program, a methodology geared towards teaching music by ear to young children. My high school had an amazing music department where you would get a one hour private lesson each week. The school hired all the best jazz musicians in Toronto to teach there. I studied with a great saxophone player named Frank Lorenzo, who now lives in Montreal, and one of Canada's greatest modern guitarist, Geoff Young. I also took lessons with Pat LaBarbera, who you might now from Elvin Jones' band. He has lived in Toronto for a long time. After graduating highs school I went to Queens University, where I studied political science and later after deciding that I wanted to study music more, I went to the New England Conservatory, where I got my MA in Jazz Studies. My influences are all the greats, John Coltrane, Sonny Rollins, Joe Henderson, Wayne Shorter. Of the current players Joe Lovano, George Garazone, Jerry Bergonzi and many, many, many more - too numerous to list.
AAJ: You dedicate two of your recordings to fellow Canadians, the trumpeter, Kenny Wheeler - Sculptures which is greatly influenced by his playing. "True Stories" - the writer Margaret Atwood is attributed. Do both of these artist have a Canadian sensibility to their work?? Is there such a thing particularly for Canadian jazz artist??
AR: I have never asked Kenny about "Canadian sensibility", but Margaret Atwood recently spoke about it. I do think it exists to an extent. I think it's impossible for an artist not to be influenced by their environment. Brazilians tend to have amazing rhythm, as they grow up in an environment where they are surrounded by it day in and day out. It's second nature to them. We have lots of snow, so I do think there is a Canadian influence to Atwood's work, and also in Kenny's, but to a lesser extent, since he has lived in Europe for the last 45 years. But, he still really likes Buttertarts, (a uniquely Canadian desert.) I'm not sure if dedicate is really the right word. They were both too involved in the projects, but I understand where the question lies... There are so many great Canadian jazz musicians. The critic Mark Miller wrote an entire book about all the great Canadian jazz players. I'm not sure if there is a Canadian sound, per se. Located so close to the United States there is a certain influence that is hard to escape, especially in a music like jazz. But I do think certain areas (like Toronto, or the West Coast) have particular sounds which generally typify these areas.
AAJ: "True Stories" finds the use of electric piano by George Colligan - was that a compositional decision? The Fender Rhodes seems to be back in vogue (Uri Caine using it with Dave Douglas and Cindy Blackman's latest recording. Please comment.
AR: The use of the Rhodes was a deliberate decision, I wanted that sound. The way the pieces that the Rhodes piano were written, I wanted that sound to bring out the parts that the keys were playing. The motions of the music, the linear aspect, seemed to suggest the use of the Rhodes. I think people are using it more, as the music of the 60's and 70's is being re-examined. Namely, Miles Davis. So much of that music is coming to light again, via re-issues. The Complete Bitches Brew Sessions, for example, I think people are becoming interested in those sounds again. It happened across the board in music really, the analog sound of the 60's and 70's are every where (Nord Leads, drum machines). Also, organ trios and bands with B3's are everywhere! In my case, I wanted to use the Rhodes because of the thickness of the sound. Even when it is just playing single lines or voicings with just a few notes. I wanted that ringing sound, it's such a great sound. I used to really not like it because it sounded "dated." But, I started to hear its potential and think about it in a different light now. I hope to use it again on a recording in the future. I have a septet project that is pretty electric, horns play through effects, etc.
LV: Vocalist Luciana Souza doesn't sing in a conventional jazz meter or "feel". How do you get a non-jazz artist to approach the music?
AR: Well, I don't really consider her a non-jazz artist. She swings in a different way, due to her background. She grew up in Brazil and has that tradition more firmly rooted in her. But she has checked out all the major jazz singers. I actually prefer the way she approaches the music, more than most singers would. And she is an amazing improviser. She has amazing instincts and I really like the way she sings, the sound of her voice, her rhythm, and her feel.
AAJ: What kinds of challenges are there to writing for literal texts. Especially when the source material is not written for the music? "Lost Sister" by Cathy Song is a good example.
AR: The main things is the phrasing. The way you have to conform the melodic line to the text to make it "fit". The great thing about this is that you get different melodies than you would under "normal" circumstances. "Lost Sister", the first piece, was written on the subway. "Jade" just happened. The others came quite naturally, but needed revision and shaping. The text had something to do with this. For example, the chords and melody for the place where the text says, "In America those changes are so American to me!"
AAJ: Now that you live in Brooklyn do you find that you're able to perform in the New York clubs, particularly with the ideas that are at the heart of the CD's?
AR: I perform in the clubs here with differing projects. Usually I really only get to do the music from a specific CD only three or four times. With the current project we did two gigs, the recording, then we did a short tour recently. That's probably the only time that we will get to perform the music as an ensemble. Partially, this is because Kenny Wheeler lives so far away. Also, it's difficult for someone like myself to the "major" clubs interested in presenting my music, due to draw considerations, etc. I have begun perusing some other projects since the CD came out: a duo setting with a piano player and an electric septet, where the two horns play through effects, and the piano player plays the Rhodes piano. This is kind of an extension on some of the things from "True Stories". I also want to deal with large ensemble writing more. I wrote a sweet for the big band performances at Birdland recently and was very pleased with the results. So I would like to do more of this.
AAJ: "Jade", despite its Asian theme, avoids the use of Chinese modes or scales. Please explain this as a compositional decision.
AR: An excellent observation/question. The setting of this text really at no time deals with the "first layer", if you will, of the narrative: Asian woman leaves home for the west. I was really more interested in dealing with the issues such a change would create. The only point in the suite where there is any direct musical connection to the "first layer" of the narrative is the harmony/melody in part one under the line "In America". The cord, an F-major triad over a B-flat is about as American as you could get. That was the only point where I wanted to frame things superficially, since I wanted to repeat that line a few times and have the voice and the French horn trade to end the section. I'm actually really happy with how that section (the coda) came out in terms of the writing. So I guess when I set something like "Jade" or any text for that matter, I would never want to try and capture the overt meaning of the piece in music (ie., like the "Asian" nature of the poem). I guess I'm more interested in setting what the text might suggest to me. I should add that writing music to text really changed a lot of things about the way I write, in terms of melody, phrasing, and form. Since you have the constraint of the text at hand it causes the writer to rethink common gestures that one might still be writing, if it was not for the need to reshape them due to the added consideration of the text. So I find that it's been really helpful and gotten me away from 4/8/16 bar phrases.
AAJ: Kenny Wheeler has had a profound impact on your music. Please tell how you met? Is your work with his big band helping shape your own voice using a larger format?
AR: Kenny has had a profound impact on a lot of people's music. Yes, he has had a major impact on me and especially for this project. I wanted to create some settings that he felt comfortable in and have pieces which he felt good playing on. I met Kenny at Banff center for the arts, an artist colony in Alberta. There is an amazing program there and Kenny Wheeler was one of the visiting artists who worked with us for a week. We played a few concerts there, and then I returned two years later and we played together again. Then, we did some stuff in Canada. When I moved to New York I asked Kenny Wheeler if he was interested in doing a big band concert in New York City. So I hooked up a gig and some quintet things, which we recently reprised a few weeks ago. I knew I wanted to record with him, so I put together some music and it worked out for last September. It was amazing it came off, all things considered. I thought he would cancel, but he was a real trooper. We played some gigs and then did the record. I was really happy with how it went. I have been writing for big band for awhile. What I admire about his music is the constant melodic content that is presented. Everything is just melody, these beautiful plaintive sounds and the way that he is able to score these songs. For nineteen people he writes voicings that are thick and they are so full and lush. He is one of the greatest living writer for brass. He writes chorales that are unreal. So I would say that his big band writing has had an impact. In my own work I am currently interested in taking the poetry and creating large ensemble settings for it I wrote a suite for our recent gig here and was very pleased with how it came out.
AAJ: On Sculptures your approach to playing intervals seems to be informed by Kenny Wheeler.
AR: I'm not sure what you mean by this. If you are referring to soloing I would have to say that what I play is not, at least consciously, really influenced by Kenny. Simply because his style and content of what he plays is too hard to do, especially on the saxophone. If you are referring to the writing, then yes, some of the harmony and melodies might be thought of as coming from a similar place. But I think I put the material together in a different way than Ken and the sketches lead to the freer pieces, obviously are coming from a more linear position than most of his writing.
