Snit Aftermath
Snit At The Knit
Lots of email in response to last week's "Snit" coverage, almost all of it
anti-Crouch.
As I mentioned, I contacted Stanley Crouch but he declined to share his own
perspective on the incident, preferring to let "the myth take its own
course."
Before I open the email files and share some of the more enlightened and/or
entertaining feedback from our users, I think it only fair to include
links to pages that portray Mr. Crouch in a more positive light.
Stanley Crouch Links, put together by one of his fans, contains a long list
of links to articles and interviews, reviews, etc. Stanley was also
interviewed several years ago on C-Span's "Book Notes," and you can watch
or listen to the entire interview in Real Audio, or check out a five minute
audio clip with slide show that shows Stanley at work in his apartment.
And now, without further adieu, Snit Feedback, along with occasional
editorial comment.
Note: Most of our correspondents preferred to remain incognito, for fear
of recriminations.
Short and Sweet
From a writer who calls himself, The Jazz Guy:
"Mandel (the Samuel Gompers of the jazz hack set) and Crouch BOTH leave a
lot to be desired when it comes to jazz criticism. Stanley's much more
intelligent, though Howard needs more therapy. A pox on both their houses."
Is that a bibical curse?
From a photography buff:
"What a story. How can anyone claim to know what is jazz anyway? To start
swingin over it is insane. This guy must have some issues. Maybe they
will smooth things out. Sorry i missed the party.
Yes, it was an affair to remember, complete with potato chips, pretzels and
cookies.
From an obvious insider:
"So, does Stanley get the fight by a decision? Or does Howard's walking
away make it a "No mas" and thus constitute a hollow victory? And can we
see some ranking of contenders? Whitehead? Santoro? The Sabin family?"
For those outside the inner circle, Kevin Whitehead and Gene Santoro are
jazz writers. The Sabin Family owns JazzTimes magazine.
Anonymous:
"Hey, thank god for Stanley Crouch, otherwise jazz would be very, very
dull, especially "a la" Harvey Mandell....."
For the record, Harvey Mandell is a rock guitarist with some heavy blues
and jazz influences a la Jeff Beck, Carlos Santana, and Mike Bloomfield.
Howie Mandel is an obnoxious comic who now has his own talk show. Howard
Mandel is a writer and president of the Jazz Journalists Association.
Dorf, the Awards and The Knitting Factory - Pro and Con
"Steven":
"Bravo for Douglas, Shipp, and most of all for Michael Dorf. Mr. Dorf's
effort for preserving and advancing the art form of jazz is wonderful. His
Knitting Factory is a revelation for jazz lovers--I love
the space. The Texaco Festivals this year and last have been outstanding.
Much more so than the JVC. To Stanley Crouch, please stay uptown in Lincoln
Center, we don't need your so-called intellectualism, and bad manners,
downtown."
CEEJAY has a somewhat different perspective on the Knit itself:
"I VISITED THAT VENUE, AND I WAS APPALLED AT ITS CONDITION. JUST
ANOTHER FILTHY CLUB PRESENTING AMERICA'S FIRST ART FORM. I FEEL THAT
THEY COULD DO BETTER WITH ITS APPEARANCE. OBVIOUSLY, THE OWNERS
ARE NOT PUTTING THE MONEY BACK INTO THE BUSINESS. TO ME, IT IS
DISRESPECTFUL OF THE MUSIC."
FestMan:
Sorry I missed the 'Nit At The Knit. I know both Howard and Stanley
'The Grouch." This incident reminds me of another encounter involving
'The Grouch at one of the annual Charlie Parker Trib. concerts in Tompkins
Sq. Park where 'The Grouch confronted Gene Santoro of the
News. I can also recall an even sadder incident back in the late '70's or
early '80's at the now legendary 'Wildflower Concerts' at Sam Rivers'
Studio Rivbea.
'The Grouch was booking a similar festival with some of the same
artists at different times on the same day as the Rivbea Festival. 'The
Grouch and Sam Rivers got into it in front of Rivbea, with accusations,
name calling and shoving which almost resulted in punches being thrown. A
truly sad chapter in the NY Jazz Scene. In fact wasn't there an incident
some years back where 'The Grouch spiked the cookies with hash at a meeting
of some jazz people, one being Jeff Levenson...?"
Dear Fest Man, I've heard reports of that hash spiking incident and will
follow-up but I must say up front, Alice B. Toklas was a friend of mine.
Pro-Crouch
From a Jazz educator in the Bay Area, who was at the Awards presentation.
An early flight the next morning kept her from witnessing the Snit at the
Knit, but she was glad because:
"I know Stanley, met him several years ago at a conference in St.
Louis, and might have been punched myself! Stanley is brilliant, an
excellent writer, and right about many things. I am confused,
however, what has happened to him in regard to the music. He needs to
focus his attention on being a cultural critic and talk about American
Culture (as he did in Notes From a Hanging Judge), which is very valuable."
Pat Harris accompanied Mr. Crouch that night:
"I had dinner with Stanley Crouch that night along with Tamme Hunt, and
from what I was told by Stanley, he did not punch Howard; he smacked him.
That's why he wasn't hurt. I think a punch in the face would have done
serious damage.
Regarding what he said at the awards, he's entitled to his own opinion,
and even though it could have been conceived to be in bad taste to lambaste
an artist he doesn't appreciate, I think the music
can stand it. Yes, he is controversial, yes, perhaps out of line. I
certainly wouldn't want him referring to my artist in that way. But, to
those of us unfamiliar with Dave Douglas' work, trying to figure out not
only who he was, but what he was doing with all those other names, it made
a valid point. how did he get nominated, just who is he?"
Some Thoughts on Stanley From His Fellow Scribes
A writer/poet:
"Stanley's snarky asides during the presentation were really out of
line and hurtful to the musicians at whom they were directed. And his
behavior at the Knit, when he was called on his bullshit, was
beyond the pale. It's not the first time -- it points right back to his
Village Voice days. He is a bully. I think the MacArthur Foundation
should take back the award, on the grounds that he acts more like an idiot
than a genius.
On a serious note, I think Stanley should take some of that money and
spend it on counseling for his abusive, volatile behavior. One of these
days, he is going to cause serious damage to someone, and/or to himself and
it won't be something to "forgive" or laugh at. His column the next day
reflected that he thinks a few punches are alright, although he was talking
about the police, and punches versus guns. At this point, it is difficult
to invest in his ricocheting opinions. He used to
champion David Murray (now THERE were some blips and blaps), until it
became more lucrative to champion an exceedingly conservative musician.
And, in tandem with the counseling, he could join a gym and have a go at
the punching bag. It would help with his weight problem too."
A 30 year veteran of jazz broadcasts and journalism:
Crouch can be a surly old bastard, no doubt. Not that we always need
hearts and flowers, but this is what is bad about jazz. There are so many
camps (at least 30 that I know of) and people prefer THEIR jazz to the
exclusion of all else. The community is so fractionalized, who can blame
the bloodsucking sharks for feeding on the bleeding (but still very much
alive) carcass. And put lots of blame on idiot newspaper editors and
magazine publishers, who really don't care where their ad $'s
come from (Cadence excluded,) not to mention the "smooth jazz" fools. The
recent Downbeat row on Coltrane by John McDonough, for example, is totally
inexcusable, and yellow as it gets. It would be the same if he raked Artie
Shaw over the coals. The solution - education. We need jazz
education in K-12 so that the next generation and ones to follow aren't
caught up in their little prejudices and narrow focal points. Until then,
we are culturally at least 30 years behind, and many more decades behind
Europe and Japan. Until we refuse to be exploited, this is going to
continue for the next ten years and beyond, with endless bickering and
precious little substantive & constructive dialogue. Bravo to Mandel and
the JJA for making the attempt."
Scott Yanow, an LA-based journalist:
"I think the humorless and pompous Stanley Crouch (whose liner notes
tend to be nonsensical, semi-fictional and dreadfully dull) should be known
as "the Pat Buchanan of jazz." I've long felt that he's the type of jerk
(like Buchanan) who would get in a fist fight with someone who doesn't
agree with him. I didn't know I was quite that perceptive!
Why is that self-important louse even given credibility by the jazz
world?"
Veteran jazz journalist Chris Albertson:
"I am not at all surprised to hear of Stanley's outrageous conduct. He
is an opportunist of the first order, and I am not so sure that his
occasionally surfacing "brilliant" perceptions in any way provide
an acceptable balance for his boorish behavior. Mandel has my admiration
for responding as gentlemanly as he did."
AJ Smith, another veteran scribe:
"Three things that need be emphasized about the momentous occasion of
the First Jazz Awaeds. THE AWARDS SHOW! THE AWARDS SHOW! THE AWARDS SHOW!
The fact that controversy was created makes it all the more valid.
Physical abuse should be left to the High School kids; we "adults" should
rise above that. We are people of words; the deeds lie on our performances.
Ponder this analogy: jazz is a wheel of cheese. Unknowing nibblers at
the edges take what they need for sustenance, the rock and rollers, the
hip-hopers, the rappers, the country & westerners, the popsters, etc. The
problem is what is nibbling at the center. The industry is reducing the
core of that wheel of cheese deliberately and often without finesse. All
that will remain is a hard core of oxygenated cheese still good to be
scraped on salads and pasta. Mold (as in moldy figs?) will have
to build it up...again. Pay attention!"
Interesting analogy Arnold, kind of makes me hungry and nauseous all at once.
Independent Label Owners on the Awards and Crouch
From a New York area based label owner:
"The Jazz Awards although not perfect were a necessity to have. I
commend Dorf for getting it together. Jazz (in any form) needs all the help
it can get. Any publicity is a step in the right direction.
Jazz is a name used for improvised music. Maybe that is what the Award's
showed be called from now on.
Crouch was in bad taste and now he has to live with his mistakes
forever. The major labels do have something for some artists but as the
artists become more business wise themselves, they certainly do not need
major labels. In fact my favorite line is" If artists really new what goes
on in the record business they would never play the game. They would play
music for themselves and not get involved with the label game."
From a Chicago based independent label owner:
Your recent diatribe was fascinating and it made me laugh. Just the
thought of major-label, ass-kissing shithead "jazz critics," all drunk and
bloated with their own self-importance, acting like imbeciles, resorting to
threats and violence to make their point..... I find humor in absurdity.
Stupid people are funny.
What does trouble me, however, is that these "visionaries" put together
something they call the Jazz Awards, without notifying, acknowledging or
inviting many independent labels outside of NY. I
suspect this whole thing was a product of the NY jazz mafia, which is fine,
but they should have called it "the NY Jazz Mafia Awards" or something more
accurate like that. I'm particularly bothered by the fact that all the
writers mentioned in your account all get free samples of our jazz
recordings [I wish the "judges" of this presentation were required to
reveal how many of the winning CDs they actually paid for], so they can't
really say they don't know us. As the oldest and one of the most important
indie labels in the country, I would think a phone call or press release
would be appropriate. At least we now know not to support this event with
our money or presence in the future. What a joke.
Meanwhile, some of the most innovative, vital, and ultimately important
jazz is being created right here in Chicago. Were recording and promoting
these artists, without the approval of.......anyone.
We will certainly take the credit when our work is recognized, but we are
not in business to win awards or give rim jobs to self-proclaimed critics.
We are in business to make great records, and that's what we do, with quiet
pride. I love New York, but New York can fuck off."
Feedback from Musicians, Including a Nominee
Trombonist Robin Eubanks:
"I thought the awards were very good, especially for a first time out.
I'm glad that it was FINALLY done, and Michael Dorf and Co. deserve serious
props for pulling it off. Hopefully the industry will kick in some bread to
assure that it happens again. All award shows are too long. I've done the
Grammy's 3 times and watched a few Award shows on TV, and they are all WAY
too long, but that seems to be an accepted characteristic of the genre.
Having said that, I do have one major criticism. Although it was nice to
have two categories, since it assists in offering more inclusiveness, the
voice of one segment of the community was completely excluded....and
unfortunately it speaks volumes about the state of the music business. THE
PEOPLE THAT CREATE THE MUSIC!!!!
As usual, the musicians are overlooked. As knowledgeable as the
industry people and the critics think they are, their knowledge pales in
comparison to the musicians'. Since over 90% of the awards went to
musicians, don't you think we warrant at least 1% of input about what WE
make a living doing? DAMN.... it's actually VERY insulting. I hope we get a
chance to select our own choices next year."
And from our favorite Cuban alto player, whose email name is The Paq-Man:
Ha-Ha-Ha.... that's funny...... I wish al Jolson (A.K.A. Stanley
Crouch) had that sense of humor!
Finally, a nominees in the debut artist category, who couldn't be present,
cellist Matt Turner:
Great story. Maybe Mandel and Crouch can go on the World Wrestling
Federation Tour. I was nominated in the debut artist category--probably by
accident. How many jazz cellists get nominated? I couldn't make it to the
awards ceremony due to teaching/performing obligations, but
now I wish I had made the effort (and shelled out the 300 dollars for a
plane ticket) just to observe Crouch's left hook.
By the way, what did Crouch say when my name (Matt Turner) was
mentioned? I'll be offended if he didn't at least take a jab at the
ridiculousness of cello in jazz. How come Dave Douglas gets all of
the negative remarks?--oh well, can't win'em all I guess.
I guess it says something that people are still somewhat passionate
about the music scene and the fact that bigger labels' glossed-over crap
hasn't taken over the world completely. Not yet
anyway..."
Once again, our thanks to everyone who took the time to respond.
