By Terry Perkins
Cecil Payne, the oldest member of Bebop Generations, had already been playing music professionally for more than two decades before band members such as Eric Alexander, Joe Farnsworth and John Webber were even born. But a conversation with Payne -- even conducted over the phone lines from a thousand miles away -- immediately reveals that the 77-year-old baritone saxophone player lives by the philosophy that you're only as old as you feel. And Payne feels just fine these days.
"Joe and Eric have got me recording again," remarks Payne, speaking from his home in Camden, New Jersey. "I'm even writing music again these days. It's a real good feeling -- just like the old days when I was first playing and musicians stuck together because they loved to play the music."
Playing jazz music professionally has been part of Payne's life since 1946, when he cut his first recording session, playing alto saxophone as a member of trombonist J.J. Johnson's band. But Payne's musical roots actually go back a decade farther, to the time he first heard a Count Basie recording.
"I was born in Brooklyn in 1922," recalls Payne. "And I remember the first musical instrument I played was a Hawaiian-style guitar. But what really turned me toward jazz was a Count Basie record I heard when I was 14 years old. The song had a two bar instrumental break featuring a saxophone player, and I thought it was the greatest thing I had ever heard. It was Lester Young."
Payne pestered his parents until they bought him an alto saxophone, and within a year he was sitting in with a local band -- and spending a lot of time with one of high school classmates, Max Roach, who would become one of the great drummers in jazz. Although Roach was two years younger than Payne was, he was already focused on becoming a professional drummer. Under roach's influence, Payne began to become more involved in the jazz scene -- much to the dismay of his parents.
"My folks wanted me to become a dentist," states Payne. "And I was supposed to be helping out in my Dad's tailor shop after school. But a lot of times, I ended up rehearsing music with Max, and pretty soon I was playing with Clarence Briggs and his band. And that was the first time I played the baritone sax."
Although Payne's primary instrument in the band remained the alto, it was usually the alto player's duty to double on baritone sax in the small, four-piece reed sections of late 1930s-era big bands.
"We had a Jimmy Lunceford arrangement of "Ain't She Sweet," and somebody suggested we use a baritone sax on the chorus, which the Basie Band did on a lot of their tunes," says Payne. "So I bought a baritone sax for 45 dollars, and played it once a night on that song."
But the Second World War postponed Payne's career decision between dentistry and music. He enlisted in the army in 1942, and thanks to a friend in the band at Camp Ellis, Illinois, Payne soon found himself playing clarinet in his unit's marching band.
By the time Payne was discharged in 1946, the bebop revolution was in full swing on the New York City jazz scene -- and his friend Max Roach was right in the middle of it, playing with the likes of Charlie Parker, Dizzy Gillespie, Miles Davis and a host of others. In fact, it was Roach who lined up Payne's first recording date on alto sax with J.J. Johnson -- and helped him gain a job in trumpeter Roy Eldridge's big band -- this time on baritone sax.
"Roy Eldridge was starting a big band, and Max told me to try out for the band," says Payne. "They were having tryouts at the Spotlite Club on 52nd Street, so I showed up with my alto, but they told me they had just hired an alto player. I stuck around to listen, and all of a sudden Roy come running out of the back, hollering, 'Where can we find a baritone player?' Well, I still had that baritone in my closet from the Clarence Briggs band, and told him I could play. He asked me to show up for rehearsals the next day, and I've been playing baritone ever since."
Some of Payne's finest work on baritone sax occurred over the next three years as a member of Dizzy Gillespie's big band. He appeared on virtually all of Gillespie's classic big band recordings, showcasing his full, powerful tone and ability to handle the band's rapid, bop-style chord changes with ease. "We were like brothers in Diz's band," says Payne. "It was like we all breathed together, like we were one person when we played music."
But the era of big bands was coming to a close, as music business economics made it much more viable for small groups to make money on the club circuit. After leaving Gillespie in 1949, Payne worked with Tadd Dameron, James Moody and Illinois Jacquet until the mid-50s, then decided to take a hiatus from music and work in the real estate business with his father.
"I was just getting tired of the lifestyle," comments Payne. "Being on the road all the time and the late nights was wearing me out, so I decided to take a break."
That break ended after a few years when Payne returned to music to play with pianist Randy Weston -- and then to appear as a musician and actor in a stage play called "The Connection." He worked with top actors like Martin Sheen, and toured with the play for almost two years before joining the Afro-Cuban band of percussionist Machito in 1963. Payne later joined Woody Herman's band, and achieved one of lifelong musical dreams in 1969 when he joined the Count Basie Band.
"I tell you, I would have played with Basie for nothing," says Payne. "I couldn't believe I was actually playing with Count Basie! It was his band that first got me interested in jazz, and now I was up on stage with him."
Payne's musical activity began to drop off again in the mid-70s, and by the decade of the 1980s he had relocated from Brooklyn to Camden, New Jersey, where his musical activities was primarily limited to sitting in at local clubs. But thanks to saxophone player Junior Cook, an old friend of Payne's, he began to become more musically active once again.
"Junior asked me to do some jazzmobile concerts, where they bring a jazz group into a neighborhood to play for the people, and I aid I'd do it if he had a good drummer. He told me he did, and when I showed up, he pointed toward a young fellow in a blue suit and said, 'thatÂ’s' our drummer.' That was Joe Farnsworth, and through him I ended up meeting Eric, and pretty soon we were all playing together. I guess you could say that was what eventually led to the Bebop Generations band."
Alexander, who recorded several albums for the Delmark label, was able to interest the company in recording Payne. As a result, Payne has recorded three albums as a leader for Delmark since 1993 -- marking his first recording projects since 1979.
"Those young guys like Eric and Joe and John keep me alive," concludes Payne. "Trying to keep up with the beat when I'm playing with them is definitely keeping the old man going."
