June 2001

"Philadelphia just swings hard and of course so much music comes out of Philadelphia, and the organ in particular – almost all the great organ players are from Philadelphia."

From the Inside Out
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By Chris M. Slawecki

This month, the 16th Annual Mellon Jazz Philadelphia Festival will honor the first family of the Hammond organ, “Papa” John and his son Joey DeFrancesco. The Festival will comprise dozens of free and pay events from June 12 through June 17, including appearances by Terence Blanchard, Andrew Hill, the Shirley Horn Trio, the Dave Weckl Band, the Sun Ra Arkestra, and the Dizzy Gillespie Alumni All-Stars featuring Clark Terry and Slide Hampton. Festival week, however, will belong to “Papa” John and Joey, who will be joined by a stellar list of national and local Jazz favorites in a special “All in the Family” honorees concert on June 15. The esteem and endearment felt toward the DeFrancescos is evident in the list of participants for this “All in the Family” concert with and for the honorees, which includes all three musical DeFrancescos (including Joey’s blues guitarist brother Johnny) and such stars and local legends as Pat Martino, Jimmy McGriff, Trudy Pitts and Mr. “C,” Charles Fambrough, Bootsie Barnes, and Mickey Roker.

“Papa” John DeFrancesco was born in Niagara Falls, NY, and began playing the trumpet when he was about six. Encouraged by his own father, a swing musician, he explored music throughout his youth and began playing the Hammond organ after his wife Laurene gave him one for his 23rd birthday. In 1967, “Papa” moved his family to South Philadelphia and grew into his own as an organist while being inspired and nurtured by Philadelphia’s unparalleled stable of hometown organ players (Richard “Groove” Holmes, Shirley Scott, Jack McDuff, Don Patterson, Trudy Pitts, etc.). Around 1980, however, “Papa” pressed the “pause” button on his own musical ambitions to gently supervise the burgeoning career of his son Joey.

After Joey was professionally and personally more established, “Papa” returned to his own bag in the early 1990s, releasing rock solid grooves on Doodlin’ in 1992 and Comin’ Home in 1994 (both for Muse). He appears with his son on Joey’s 1998 release, All In The Family (High Note). This past January he released Hip Cake Walk (High Note), a collection of Jazz and jam session standards; produced by Joey, this set also features Joey’s trumpet on such Miles Davis classics as “Freddie the Freeloader” and “Milestones.”

Joey DeFrancesco was raised in South Philly and began playing piano about age five but switched to organ shortly thereafter. A prodigy, he was honored with the Philadelphia Jazz Society’s McCoy Tyner Scholarship and was a 16-year-old finalist in the first Thelonious Monk International Jazz Piano Competition. Joey recorded his first album at age 17, All of Me (Columbia), and released nearly half a dozen sets for that label. He performed and recorded with Miles Davis (on the albums Amandla and Live Around The World), and is currently a member of the “Jazz Times” SuperBand (with Dennis Chambers, Randy Brecker, and Bob Berg). His releases within the past few years include Joey DeFrancesco’s Goodfellas (Concord Jazz), a somewhat tongue-in-cheek tribute to his musical and ethnic heritage with organ trio versions of “Volare,” “Speak Softly Love (The Theme from The Godfather)” and “O Solo Mio,” and two tribute albums for the founding father of Hammond B-3 funk, Jimmy Smith (The Champ and The Champ Round 2, both on High Note). Last year he released Incredible! (Concord Jazz), which captures DeFrancesco and Smith performing two expansive and energetic medleys in performance together.

Though the Philadelphia Mellon Jazz Festival has previously honored Philly families (the Heath Brothers and the Eubanks Brothers), this is the first time it has recognized a father and son together. Conveniently (or perhaps cosmically), the Festival concludes on the Fathers’ Day holiday. AAJ spoke with both father and son about being honored in their adopted/native hometown in tandem with the son/father that has meant so much to their personal and professional lives.

AAJ: How would you express your feelings about being honored in your adopted hometown / city of your birth? And being honored in tandem with your son / your father?
Papa John: At first, I was, like, overwhelmed, you know? You know who told me? Joey called me and told me that this was going to take place, and we were both really kind of…filled up on the phone. It’s exciting but at the same time it was…we both got filled up a little bit on the phone, you know? It was a little emotional.
Joey: It’s really hard to describe. It’s really a great thing. I’ve been getting a lot of acclaim, you know, for the last twelve years, and people praise me and say this and that about me, and I always think about my dad – if it wasn’t for him, I wouldn’t be doing any of this. When they called that they were going to honor myself and him, it was really great. I couldn’t wait to call him. It was very emotional for both of us, that he was recognized to that degree, because he deserves it so much. It’s just a moving experience, and it’s a great honor as far as I’m concerned, and I’m glad that my dad is in it.

AAJ: Why did you move to Philadelphia / to Phoenix (AZ)?
Papa John: I was living in Niagra Falls, I was playing music, and I came down here because my family was growing and I also had a chance to work with airplanes. I worked at Boeing for awhile. When they had all the cutbacks I left, and was playing music.
Joey: I like in Cave Creek, Arizona. Why did I move there? Well, I went out there for some business, and I really liked it. So I decided to move out there. My life is from there. I wound up becoming a total Arizona person.

AAJ: Can you hear the sound of Philadelphia in your music? What is that sound?
Papa John: You definitely can hear the sound of Philadelphia. As far as I’m concerned, Philadelphia is really the mecca of organ players. I don’t know, man, but I do feel that I do hear the sound because I know that I go to other towns and the organ players are cool and all that, different guys, but I think Philadelphia has it kind of wrapped up, don’t you?
Joey: I think so. Philadelphia just swings hard and of course so much music comes out of Philadelphia, and the organ in particular – almost all the great organ players are from Philadelphia. So I think there’s a certain sound to the Philly stuff. It’s like the way that Philly Jo Jones played the drums, and the way like ‘Trane played – it’s a Philly sound, a Philly guy was called “a Philly cat.” There is a certain sound. It’s a little more swingin’. Swings harder.

AAJ: Do you think your Italian heritage has anything to do with your musical personality?
Papa John: Well you know, not only am I Italian but I’m a Sicilian. You know, my dad was also a musician and I was heavily influenced from him, too. But I don’t know if I hear that at all, I don’t know if I do or not. That’s pretty tricky. I don’t think I’m playing any tarantellas or anything. I’m very proud of my heritage and my dad and…I guess there’s a little bit of it in there, you know. I don’t know. I never even thought of that – that’s pretty neat.
Joey: I don’t know. Not really, I don’t think so. When we did Goodfellas it was intentional, it was intentional to do that. But I don’t think you really would be able to hear that so much. If you heard me, you wouldn’t know what I was.

AAJ: What are your three favorite Jimmy Smith titles – not necessarily the three “best,” but the three that you like the best?
Papa John: First of all, my favorite album – actually I have two of them. There’s The Organ Grinder’s Swing, the album, and the other one is Midnight Special. The tune on Midnight Special – I like ‘em all! “Midnight Special,” of course, the title tune. And on The Sermon, I like “Flamingo,” with Lee Morgan blowing, that’s one of my favorites tunes. And, on Organ Grinder – god, I like ‘em all. “Satin Doll”’s cookin’ on there, it sounds kind of…that’s a real good album. I love his ballads and I love his straight-ahead stuff, too.
Joey: “The Organ Grinder’s Swing” would be one. “The Sermon” and a record called “The Boss.”

AAJ: What is the best lesson that you learned from your father in music, and then the best lesson that had nothing to do with music?
Papa John: About music: The first thing my dad always told me when I was learning how to play – by the way, I started on trumpet – from the early stages, he taught me the Sal Fagio and the old methods of music, and I learned a lot. He always told me, “You play with your heart, and you listen to what everybody else is doing.” That’s why they call it a band. Unless you’re playing a solo. But he said to always play from your heart. The other question, what did he teach me that had nothing to do with music? He was born in Sicily, both my mom and dad, and he used to tell me in Italian, “If you sit under the tree and wait for the apple to fall, you’ll starve to death. You have to go up and get it.” Through life, I’ve been trying to follow that rule. The saying in Italian had a different ring to it…
Joey: As far as music goes, he always was very encouraging. The best thing that he did, though, was that he never was a heavy pusher. He knew that I was interested so he guided me in the right direction, and he taught me all the proper techniques on how to play the organ, and always emphasized listening. Listen to everybody. Keep your ears open: That’s the best thing that any musician can learn, to listen to one another.

The best thing not about music that he taught me? There’s a lot of things. I mean, he’s the greatest dad that anybody could have, I gotta tell ya. He’s really a good dad. He’s a disciplinarian and at the same time he’s got a lot of love, a lot of affection. He taught me how to be a father for my daughter. I learned a lot from my dad. How to be responsible. How to take care of your family. The way to treat other people – I mean, everybody loves him.

AAJ: What are the differences between your two styles? Is there any song or type of music that you like to play that your son / father would really rather not?
Papa John: We play a lot of the same things, but Joey has all that fire. He’s a young cat, plus he…you know, he’s mastered that instrument. I really believe in my heart that he has mastered it. He can do anything on that instrument – anything. I still haven’t mastered it yet. When we’re together, he picks a tune, I’ll pick a tune, we play it, when he solos I’m in the back, when I solo he’s in the back, we just sit up there and laugh at each other. We’ve been doing this for years. When I was in my other house, we had a music room also, and we used to go down there and jam. Both of my sons are musicians. The boys used to go down and jam forever. It’s like we’re doing it again, only this time we’re on stage.
Joey: I think my dad is more groove and blues based, his style. Mine is based on that, too, though, and in that respect we’re very similar. My feel is very much like his. But I explore a little more because I’ve had opportunities to do that: My whole life has been music; his whole life is music but plus working other jobs and really worrying about taking care of his family properly. I was lucky enough to have early success in music, where I could do nothing but music. I might play some things...but he loves everything I play and I love everything he plays, and we love to play together. I just might have a little more knowledge about some things, in some areas. He would have it if he had the time, because he’s a very talented guy.

AAJ: Who was in your first band?
Papa John: My very first band? I’m trying to remember. Cats from back home. Yeah, I can remember: I remember Joe Lucas, he was the piano player. Henry Barnekie, a sax player. The drummer was Cliff Bell. And I. And we had a bass player, his name was John Serpa. I was playing horn (trumpet). That was my first organized band, 1955.
Joey: My very first band? Let me think. Well, when I first started playing I was four. Within a year, I was playing enough to where I could go and play with a band, so I used to go and sit in with my dad’s band. That was the very first band I played with. The first band of my own was called Joey DeFrancesco and Strictly Business. I was playing keyboards, and I had a bass player and a drummer. The bass player’s name was Leonard Richardson and the drummer’s name was Leon Jordan.

AAJ: Who was the musician – who was not an organ player – who had the biggest impact on your playing and how?
Papa John: My dad, you know, was a very big influence on me. He played saxophone. Miles Davis – big influence. His warmth, the dark tones and the warmth in the ballads – he was playing right from his heart. He sounded like he was singing when he was playing. I thought his music was very warm. Of course, John Coltrane. Wes Montgomery. A lot of Wes, I loved Wes Montgomery. There’s a whole load of ‘em. We could spend a lot of time talking about the guys that I listened to and learned from. Herbie Hancock and Bill Evans.
Joey: John Coltrane. The spirit in which he plays, and the feeling that comes across. I mean, when you hear that stuff, I feel very spiritual. I like to have that in my music, you know? To play with total command over the instrument, and at the same time there’s so much feeling coming out of it. That was a big influence on me.

AAJ: What’s your funniest “on the road” story?
Papa John: There’s two that stick out in my mind. The first one was, we were doing a gig and we had a trailer – this was pre-van days, you know, it was either a hearse or a trailer. We were in the car and the trailer was in the back, of course. It was a snowstorm, and we were all in the car laughing and carrying on, going up the road with it. I was in the back seat on the driver’s side. We were all laughing and carrying on. I looked out the window, and I saw the trailer alongside of us, with all of our equipment in it. I told Joey, the guy who was driving us, “Hey, is that our trailer?” Everybody started screaming! The thing ran off the road and stopped, so we pulled over and hooked it back up. And off we went. That’s one. The second one was, we were bringing the organ up a flight of stairs. It was straight up, and it was just enough room to get this box up there. And the door was – you came in the door, and there was the stairs. So we had the door open and we were going up the stairs. What we did was, we laid two-by-fours on the stairs so we could slide it up, that’s how close it was. There was a rope on the front of the organ, and I’m in the back pushing it, and the guys are still unloading outside. We’re about three quarters of the way up, and the guy pulling the rope says, “I can’t hold the rope no more,” and lets the rope go. Down comes the organ. I’m running, I dive out the door, and the organ follows me out the door. As it was coming down, there were these lamps on the side, lights, and it busted every one. You could hear it: bing, bing, bing, all the way down. It followed me out the door, and flipped over. Guess what, man? We got it, picked it up, plugged it in, and it didn’t even miss a note. I guess these things were funny to me. I almost got killed by the organ. I had plenty of time to get out, but it was the idea of this thing rolling all the way down the stairs and then we bring it back up and plug it in and it goes right to work.
Joey: We went over to Italy to play, and I’ve got the Trio. Now, the trio needs a sound system, you’ve got to have enough mikes to mike the drums, the guitars, the Leslie speaker, that sort of stuff. So we went up to soundcheck and they said, “Now, you’re a trio?” and we said, “Yes, we’re a trio,” and they gave us three microphones on the stage. “You’re a trio, that’s all you need is three.” That was a funny thing.

AAJ: What singer would you most like to play with?
Papa John: I got a couple that I really like right now. I like Luther Vandross an awful lot. Man, I tell you, the cat sings so beautiful and so perfect it’s ridiculous. I dig the way he sings, man. I used to like Mark Murphy a lot too, I love the way he sang. I like B.B. King, the way he sings, too, man.

AAJ: Love to hear you behind Tony Bennett.
Papa John: Tony, man, we’d be swinging hard, Tony Bennett. I love his piano player! The cat can put some changes down, man. He’s really a great pianist.
Joey: Singer, huh? Tony Bennett. Yeah, I’d like to do that, too – it almost happened, too. Tony had called me and requested a copy of one of my CDs. I guess he was thinking about having an organ or something.

AAJ: What’s your favorite Frank Sinatra song?
Papa John: My favorite? “Only The Lonely.” I like that whole album, man (Only The Lonely, 1958). I don’t think there’s a bad tune on there. Nelson Riddle is, like, ridiculous – “Willow Weep For Me,” all them tunes.
Joey: “Only The Lonely.”

AAJ: How about your favorite Sinatra movie?
Papa John: Favorite one? I think I like the one where he sings with the little kid, and Edward G. Robinson is in it. The Hole In The Head? He sings “Come Fly With Me” on it. I like a couple of his movies, but that one just stuck with me for some reason.
Joey: I like Oceans 11. My other favorite Sinatra movie, I like From Here To Eternity.

AAJ: What’s coming up after the Festival for you?
Papa John: I’m playing all over the place. Right after the Jazz Festival, Joey and I are going to Rochester and playing together. God, I’ve got a lot of gigs.
Joey: Very, very busy. I go, from that Festival, the next day I go to Chicago, then after that to Jamaica, and then over to Europe…I’m jumping all over. I’m very busy this summer.

AAJ: Who’s in your band now?
Papa John: I use several different bands. Right now, my son Johnny plays guitar. There’s Glenn Ferracone on drums, and that changes too, but I use him the most now. And Bootsie Barnes on sax, when I need a fourth man. He’s solid. God almighty. Bootsy, he’s unbelievable.
Joey: Paul Bollenback and Byron Landham, my Trio.