By Michael Jeffers
The sun is setting and the music is really inspiring. The Chicago Trio is playing, Jerry Steinhilber (drums), Larry Kohut (Bass), Jim Trompeter (piano), for Jazz at Sunset live broadcast from College of DuPage 90.9 F.M. WDCB. Performing with the trio is Legendary Saxophone player George Garzone who along with the group have a new CD being released "Chicago Trio, New York Tenor". Since George was in town from New York I decided to interview both Jerry Steinhilber and George Garzone about this great new concept of using a rhythm section from Chicago and a Tenor player from New York.
AAJ: I guess the best place to start is how did you and Jerry get to know each other?
George Garzone: I was and still am playing with a group called the Fringe, we have been together for 30 years, how many bands can say that, anyway after about 2 months of seeing him at our gig, almost every night, Jerry and I got to know each other.
Jerry: I am from Indiana and I grew up on a farm. My mom drops me off at Berkley College of Music, which doesn't have really any kind of campus and that was it. I was out off the farm and into the city. A lot of people can't handle that; I saw lots of guys decide it wasn't for them. I made friends fast, and started to fit in but I really loved music. When I first heard George and his group play I was knocked over. What great music. .
AAJ: So did you get a degree from there?
Jerry: I have about a year left to get my degree, I decided to leave Berkley and play on cruise ships. I ended up being on a ship with a lot of guys who went to see George play. The thing that helped me on that ship was the only thing to do was listen to Coltrane. For like 3 or 4 years I was on the ship and all I did was listen to Coltrane. That is something that the young people forget is that you have to spend all that time listening. So between listening to the music, and after the passengers went to bed we used have jam sessions and really play, that really helped me to grow as a musician. All that time listening and performing really helped me grow musically.
AAJ: So when you got off the ships?
Jerry: From the ship I went to L.A. then to Phoenix, I played in show bands in Tahoe. Then I met my wife and moved back to L.A. I was out there for the earthquakes, the riots but the last thing that finally made me want to move out of L.A. was when I got all my drums stolen out of my car. I told my wife we are out of here. SO we moved to Chicago and have been here for seven years.
AAJ: How did the CD come to be?
Jerry: Things have not been as healthy around here as they used to be. So I decided to get a project band together. I would write some tunes, get a heavy weight to write some tunes, put a good trio together in town and then make a C.D. The plan was make a record, sell the record, and tour the record.
AAJ: How many tunes did you write?
Jerry: I wrote 4 tunes and George wrote 4
AAJ: So George did you write the tunes specifically for the record?
George: I had written the tunes before the project came to be, but it was one of those things where Jerry had played the tunes with me before and he felt comfortable with them.
Jerry:. When we got this band together he brought in some of his original compositions. It is a real honor for him to do that for us. George didn't have to do that and I thank him for it.
AAJ: How did you come up with the personnel for the trio?
Jerry: I have recorded with Larry and with Jim, I cut two other records with those guys so I knew I could trust them to play their best. George heard Larry Kouht play when we did a gig at the IAJE. We played at the old Bop Shop to about 500 people. The place was packed it was a great night. Then he heard Jim Trompeter at the Green Mill and really dug him. George, about 3 years ago, came into town and we played Friday and Saturday at the Green Mill. Then on Sunday we went into the studio and recorded the CD. The CD was recorded at Studio Media in Evanston Il. The group really had fun playing together and almost everything on the CD is a first take.
AAJ: Logistically it must be tough to play as a group when George is in New York and you are in Chicago?
Jerry: Yes we really cannot play anywhere that doesn't pay real money. That's fine because I didn't get this gig together to play only in Chicago.
AAJ: Playing in this kind of group what do you look for out of your rhythm section?
George: Playing together and really driving. It is really a high driving music, if you don't drive this kind of music it won't work. Playing this kind of music is not like playing in a lounge type group where you go and play and people are talking and things like that. Really this music grabs the attention of the audience. In order to achieve that you have to have the musicians all on the same page. The music is high energy with a little subtlety.
AAJ: How does playing with a Chicago Rhythm section compare to playing with a New York rhythm section?
George: Well there is good Chicago and bad New York rhythm sections, and vice versa. You just have to know who you are playing with, I can't go and play with just anybody and make my music happen. The rhythm section that is on this CD I know can play.
AAJ: Do you notice a difference between New York and Chicago Rhythm sections?
George: Yes I do, but these guys have been all over including on the east coast, they know what the tip is getting up on top of the time. If you understand what the music calls for you can live anywhere and still be able to play. I could move anywhere, get a teaching gig somewhere, make enough money doing that and still play the way I play, because I know what the combination is. As long as you have enough money coming in to live, you can play anyway you want to, you won't have to rely on playing music you don't enjoy just to get by. I play but I also teach, that way I always have enough money coming in so I can decide where I want to play. If you rely on playing then you are subjected to having to take gigs just to make money.
AAJ: Now you have this recording and you have to sell it to a record company what was that like?
Jerry: It took almost 3 years, I guess the thing that kept me going was that the letters I got back from the record company were not form letters. They were citing tunes in the letters saying " I really like the Mingus that I knew, I really like Bad Billy Boy but we can't do anything with it right now." So I would talk to George during all this time and he could see what was happening. I guess I was so close to it I couldn't see the big picture. George said " the fact that they are listening to the CD and not sending you form letters, means they like it". The only thing I knew was that I had to send another promo packet to another record company. I got about 10- 12 rejection letters and probably another 10 record companies I never heard from, but they would cite tunes. George told me to keep going, I think the music on the record is really good and I know George does too. Finally Soul Note records picked up the CD. They really like it and are distributing it worldwide. It will be out in the states in the fall but it has been released in Europe already.
George: Just to add to it when I was coming up I was like Jerry, I had a trio as a band we were doing it ourselves. We made 2 or 3 records ourselves, then a Boston company picked us up. Then I did a release with Rachel Z and Mike Manierie it just happened a guy from New York City Records heard me and signed me to a 5 record deal. Which I am doing my 5th one in the fall. Now once you move to New York City and people know who you are people start to call you. I have never been on as many recordings as I am on now. Once your name gets out there people want to hire you. It's like hiring Joe Lovano, Kenny Werner, John Scofield, these guys play on your record you're going to sell records. That's what's happening to me. So I get to play with the cats I like and make a living doing. I also feel like I am helping all these guys. Like I said I won't record or play in a situation if the vibe doesn't feel right because the money doesn't matter. That's why I teach so I don't have to rely on gigs to make money. You have to just keep it going and pushing to get you name out there, but once you get it going people start to hear about you and it's unbelievable. It takes a while, It takes a good 20 years, it took Lovano 20 years to get things going. You have to put in the time, if you expect it to happen tomorrow, forget it. There are to many guys out there who play really good, you have to stay at it. I tell these guys keep pushing, the record sounds unbelievable, just believe.
AAJ: How many times did you want to quit?
Jerry: I never wanted to quit, I have a great family behind me and that has kept me going.
AAJ: I think it's pretty cool how you did all this yourself and it actually worked.
George: If you do all this stuff yourself you learn how to deal with people and you can pretty much guess what people are going to say before they say it. Then you know what's coming and your not stuck. People thing all you have to do is go to music school, practice, and then everything is cool, that is just the little tip of the iceberg. The business stuff, you can take classes on it but it is not until you get out there and actually do it that you figure out what is happening. I think you are better not getting picked up by a record company right off the bat, that way you can get stuff happening on your own, learn the business on your own. The guys that get lucky and gets record deal, has the record company doing most everything for them. Then when the company gets tired of the way they sound they drop them. Now these guys have never done anything and they are lost. That's the thing about jazz is that it is a seasoned sound. I can't think of any young guy who has a real seasoned sound. You have to live and grow to get that sound.
AAJ What about touring?
Jerry: We have had contact with different agents who are very interested in having the group tour Europe but nothing is definite yet.
JERRY STEINHILBER Web Site
Mike Jeffers is a well known drummer/percussionist and educator within the Chicagoland area. He has performed in Chicago and around the world in many different venues. He is also a co-founder of ChicagoJazz.com.
